If we're taking the word "vote" to mean any kind of substantive process then the people who voted in the Nazis were the 1% - banking elites, industrial conglomerates - plus outside finance (mainly from the US & UK) - who sought first to protect their assets from the very real threat of appropriation by the Left (as happened in Russia on Herbert Hoover's watch) and then finally to enrich themselves by smashing labour unions, conscripting forced labour etc.

The media would have us believe the Nazis were swept into power by the popular vote when this couldn't be further from the truth. In reality they (just) managed to squeeze a toe-hold in elections and then expertly employed the Four Bs (Bullets, Blackmail, Bribery & Broads) to consolidate their position.

But NONE of this would have been possible without huge financial injections by Henry Ford, JP Morgan, Du Pont, I.G. Farben etc.

Whilst I applaud your willingness to embrace the word "negotiation" I'm afraid you are just a bit too late. It's a bit like stopping to reconsider whether it's a good idea to purchase an ocean liner after the champagne bottle has been broken on its bow, the blocks have been kicked out and it's rumbling down the ramp.

Part of the problem is the [ilanguage of the debate[/i itself (as defined by the media) which sets limits on its scope.

"Brexit" sounds so ... [iinnocuous[/i. But then I guess it needs to be because "Brescape" ... or plain old "RUN!" might just give the game away.

When will people finally wake up and realise that there's a WAR coming? And when it does do you seriously think people are going to care one way or another about "negotiation"?

Where is the anti-capitalist, socialist revolutionary that is Russell Brand? Maybe he's too busy decorating his Henley mansion so he can move in a few families of Syrian refugees?

I usually take what you say with a pinch of salt but I'm with you on this. It's coming.

These guys have been gearing up for some heavy duty chaos and destruction in the Middle East ever since 9/11. You can hardly sail a dozen miles anywhere in the Mediterranean without seeing serious amounts of military hardware.

We've got special forces embedded from Greece & Cyprus, through Turkey, Lebanon and right back across almost to the North West coast of Africa. The US AFRICOM budget is through the roof.

The entire region is on the verge of exploding. All it'll take is some "terrorist outrage" to emerge and they'll drop the hammer.

When that happens the "Migrant Crisis" you think we are suffering now will seem trivial.

Major wars are always preceded by a noticeable inertia which history teaches us is the devil's work to stop.

What happened to nuclear deterrent or mutually assured destruction?

It still holds. This is the paradox because whilst the traditional concept of warfare (carried out between states and practised by standing armies ) died at Hiroshima - the doctrine of "counter-insurgency warfare" (where instead of targeting soldiers you murder civilians) took over.

If there's ONE statistic everyone should know about wars it is the civilian body count.

Prior to WWI it was almost non-existent. Then, in that conflict, it jumped to around 10-15% with poison gas, artillery barrages etc.. By the time WWII arrived with area bombing and such it was up at around 30%. When Vietnam arrived counter-insurgency warfare was being rolled out on a massive scale. There the civilian body count was up at around 70% (and probably higher given that we don't know the full figures of people massacred by US death squads under the rubric of "The Phoenix Program").

Today the civilian death toll in wars is around 95%. Now, the military can talk all they like about "precision munitions", "smart bombs" and such. Accident or design - the result is the same: genocide.

A good documentary worth watching which highlights this very point is Jeremy Scahill's [url=http://www.imdb.com/title/tt2532528/Dirty Wars[/url. Primarily it's about US extra-judicial assassination programs (drone strikes) but at the very end they explicitly admit that the US (and other NATO nations) have run "thousands" of missions involving special forces "kill teams" who basically fly into villages in places such as Afghanistan and wipe out the population.

Now, you can make a case for hitting what are known as "High Value Targets" - genuine troublemakers. But that wouldn't amount to much more than a few dozen missions.

It's little wonder the US has so many issues with gun violence. How do you rehabilitate someone who has spent two or three tours as part of a death squad? The answer is - you can't.

Can somebody please sort this out , this is a thread supposedly about Britains referendum on Eu membership , not loony tunes mark2

I'm probably going to vote to remain, but it's the lesser of two evils. I despise the EU for the deeply corrupt and unaccountable empire project it is, but this is a Faustian pact we have no way of escaping now. The calculated and shamelessly explicit corruption of "ever wider and deeper union" hooked us in a long time ago, the big irony is that as one of the few big net financial contributors to the project it effectively bribed our elites with our own money whilst taking even more of our money to bribe others!

We seriously need to bring migration back to more sensible levels, we need some immigrants for sure, but we need to treat economic migration as the cold, hard economic calculation it's supposed to be, the open door might get you a cheap cleaning lady or shop worker but the pressures on housing, education and healthcare are far more costly. Does a Greek barista bring the same benefit as an Indian nurse? I don't think so.

Dave was stupid to promise a deal he couldn't deliver and he made himself look idiotic by coming back with a pile of poo and telling everyone how well he'd done polishing it. The reality is that the EU project has hooked in loads of other countries too (with bribes we subsidised) and their economies are royally screwed by a dysfunctional momentary union, which means that exporting their unemployed to work as low skilled labour in the UK is a godsend whether it's remittances or UK Welfare benefits sent home or even just getting them off their own Welfare. But open door is not sustainable and you cannot run economic policy as if it were a charity with a bag of free money!

For someone voting remain you make a good argument to leave

, this might be our last chance