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Quote: SmokeyTA "Im not sure what the relevance of what was Jewish land, to what is Israel is relevant. It gives the impression that a comparison between 'Jewish land'(and im not actually sure what this means in practice here? Majority Jew? only Jew? Jewish owned? What does Palestinian land mean in relation here aswell?) in 1946 and the state of Israel in 2000 is the growth of 'Jewish land' or a growth of Isreal which isnt true, and is misleading. It treats two different things as the same thing.

I also think that including the UN partition plan and 1947-67 is misleading aswell, Firstly because the UN partition plan wasnt actual reality, it was a partition plan, not what was actually true in 1947, secondly because 1947-67 doesnt make sense really, is it just 1967? the average over this period? its strange to choose such a long timeframe,'"


Really......?!

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Quote: cod'ead "Having spent quite a bit of time living with what would be described as a liberal, christian family in Oregon, I came to the conclusion that church attendance and saying grace before each meal had little to do with religion and was more about "keeping up appearances"'"


Well, it's a group that [ishould[/i be a major force in American politics. It certainly outnumbers the bible-thumping fire-and-brimstone contingent by a considerable margin. Unfortunately, given the diversified and de-centralized nature of the Christian church in America the Liberal Left has found it difficult to organise against the seemingly ever-growing power of the fundamentalist movement.

Part of the problem is the colossal sums of money the fundamentalists have at their disposal. I think it's no co-incidence that they have the overwhelming support of big business. I mean, you could write several books on the pernicious relationship that far right christian groups and capitalist elites have shared not just in America but since the dawn of time.

Take the Dominionist movement for instance. It bears a striking resemblance to the fascist groups that existed in Italy. Also known as "Christian Reconstructionists", they have perverted, distorted and manipulated the message preached in the Bible - fusing the language and iconography of the church with right wing corporate interests. Contrary to the traditional stance taken by christian groups in America (including up to the likes of Billy Graham), their goal is to enter the political arena and bring about a new America based upon theological tenets most christians would be shocked by.

Much is made of the "barbarous" nature of fundamentalist Muslims such as the Taliban, but if these extremists ever gained power it would be very difficult to differentiate the two faiths. So, take the Dominionists for example, they espouse a "Cult of Masculinity" within the various mega-churches elevating the male to a position where he may not be questioned. Children are to obey - period.

One of their latest schemes is to "Certify" people to conduct on-the-spot conversions. Overcome the fear of mortality and grief - with a 100% certainty that they will go to heaven (reminiscent of Hezbollah).

In California the radical Dominionists are campaigning fiercely to create a christian state and have taken over almost all of the traditional christian radio stations, ruthlessly kicking out existing members.

I was surprised to discover that Wal-Mart has now taken to bringing in Dominionist preachers in order to mollify the growing number of employees dissatisfied with the company. "[iCan't afford medical care? It doesn't matter because God takes care of his own."[/i Many of America's lowest paid are some of its most vulnerable people and they are cynically targeted by the Dominionists. Once you are sucked in your leisure time is gone. Your community no longer exists. You are taught to think and accept in an appropriate manner.

But the people at the top of these far right groups are some of the most rotten - even unhinged charlatans.

So you have the likes of Pat Robertson, surrounded by Glock-toting body-guards. Jets. A rock star status. And when he's not doing bestowing his luminiferous message upon the 30-odd million followers of the God channel he's taking money from people who live on the fringes of American society and investing it in the weapons-for-diamonds trade in Sierra Leone.

I suppose the most extreme example of the far Christian Right's hand-and-glove relationship with corporate America is when Robertson, speaking live during his syndicated "700 Club", bemoaned Hugo Chavez's decision to boot out the major oil companies and stated [i"We have the ability to take him out and we should exercise that ability"[/i. It's interesting to note that Robertson was only mildly censured for that comment. But can you imagine the furore that would have been kicked up had someone like Amy Goodman called for the assassination of King Abdullah of Saudi Arabia?

Apart from the money and resources I think where the Christian Left has failed has been in completely misunderstanding the pathology of the fundamentalist movement. So, up until very recently they have (to their credit) made every effort to embrace them and engage in dialogue thinking they can be reasoned with or reformed. But when you're talking about the likes of Pat Robertson, Gerry Falwell etc. there is no negotiation. They view any kind of concession, no matter how small, as an abomination.

Non-conformists have only two options - convert or be exterminated. There's the obsession with "Rapture" (which isn't mentioned anywhere in the Bible). These are movements based on fear with a lust for violence. Again, it's no co-incidence that they go out of their way to court the armed services and the police. I read recently that there is growing concern among senior military commanders at the Pentagon over the spread of fundamentalist Christianity within the various armed services - and the power that this body exerts (certainly with respect to promotion). Eric Prince, the founder of the world's biggest mercenary army Academi (formerly the notorious Blackwater) is as far to the right of the political spectrum as you can go and has openly admitted his vehement opposition to Islam. Now, you could say the targeting of these specific groups is nothing more than co-incidence. Or you could say the fundamentalists are moving their pawns across the board in part of a long game to assume power should some calamity befall the nation and the state is unable to perform its function.

Insofar as the Jews are concerned - they are currently tolerated because their occupation of Palestine and Jerusalem in particular is one step further toward Armageddon.. But let's be under no illusions here - these are radically anti-Semitic groups. When Armageddon comes the Jews will be destroyed along with all the other non-believes and ONLY the "chosen few" will inherit God's eternal love.

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Quote: El Barbudo "There are plenty of Christian Zionists around ...'"


Indeed. As I think I've mentioned before, a previous member of these forums was one such individual. He was also a BNP member/supporter.

Which might say something.

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Quote: Mintball "Indeed. As I think I've mentioned before, a previous member of these forums was one such individual. He was also a BNP member/supporter.

Which might say something.'"


And wanted to set up the Perth WA branch of said party too...

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Quote: Big Graeme "And wanted to set up the Perth WA branch of said party too...'"


Indeed. icon_twisted.gif

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Quote: Big Graeme "And wanted to set up the Perth WA branch of said party too...'"


That just about sums them up, the irony probably flew straight over his head.

260 posts in 18 pages 
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260 posts in 18 pages 
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