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So if context is not taken into account in the case of an assault. Surely rugby can only exist through the goodwill of the participents and the indifference of the police. Whether a tackle is late or not has no bearing on its criminality, it only reflects on its interpretation within the rules of the sport which are apparently irrelevent.

Interesting that intent has been raised, who can honestly say the haven't intended to hurt someone when going in for a big hit. It doesnt have to be done outside the laws of the game, but theres numerous tackles in every game where the intent is to put the recipient on his ar$e with enough force to make him thing twice about running in your direction again. Does this constitute a criminal offense?

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Quote: Wnidyone2012 "I thought maybe wrongly that Big Dunc was done for the head butt and other factors played a part in the prison sentance and not some community punishment.'"


He'd been done for assault before, more than once. The ref at the game missed it and the SFA used video evidence to ban him later for 10 or 12 matches iirc.

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Quote: rover49 "Although some industries seem to have standards above the law of the land. On 5 live today several public bodies were asked what would happen to an employee in their particular field under such circumstances where racial incidents had been alleged. It seems that if you are a teacher and are prosecuted in a court of law and a jury of your peers finds you not guilty, you can still be dismissed after all that, as is also the case in the prison service.

It seems the word alone of the 'offended' person is enough in these professions to render the due process of the law irrelevant.

While the offence of racial crimes should not be tolerated in any walk of life, are we now saying that our laws are not enough to prevent your conviction by other means should you prove your innocence in a court of law. It seems a charter for anyone with a grudge to be able to destroy the life of another by accusation, rather than proof.'"


Personally, if I were a teacher or in a profession under similar duress and threat of summary dismissal on the word of another, then I would find myself a union with a record of defending its members properly in an employment tribunal - possibly that is the reason why teaching and other civil service unions are still quite strong ?

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Last edited by Ferocious Aardvark on stardate Jun 26, 3013 11:27 am, edited 48,562,867,458,300,023 times in total:d7dc4b20b2c2dd7b76ac6eac29d5604e_973.gif



Quote: Ajw71 "But boxers sometimes commit more harm to an opponent than you can consent to in law?!'"


No, because it starts off with the winning card that it is a "lawful activity". Boxing has managed (to date) to retain a legal get out of jail card, on the grounds that boxing [iper se[/i is a lawful activity. And that legal classification makes all the difference, because even when violence is intentionally inflicted and results in actual bodily harm, wounding or serious bodily harm there is no offence committed if the injury was a foreseeable incident of a lawful activity in which the person injured was participating.

This lawful status was very much a split decision.

There is no intellectual justification making boxing legal though many have tried. It is just it has become widely accepted (though by no means unanimously) as useful to society, and professional boxing rides immune on the back of that (for now). The issue in the case of boxing is simply whether it is a "lawful activity", and in the past, the Courts have on balance held that it is.

It was never a unanimous view. In a venerable 1803 legal tome, referring to violent physical pursuits such as wrestling, prize-fighting and boxing, East saidthe latitude given to manly exercises of the nature above described, when conducted merely as diversions among friends, must not be extended to legalise prize-fighting, public boxing matches and the like, which are exhibited for the sake of lucre, and are calculated to draw together a number of idle disorderly people[/i..."

Many would, two centuries later, concede he had a point.

The court commented in BrownThat the court is in such cases making a value-judgment, not dependant
upon any general theory of consent is exposed by the failure of any attempt
to deduce why professional boxing appears to be immune from prosecution.
For money, not recreation or personal improvement, each boxer tries to hurt
the opponent more than he is hurt himself, and aims to end the contest
prematurely by inflicting a brain injury serious enough to make the opponent
unconscious, or temporarily by impairing his central nervous system through
a blow to the midriff, or cutting his skin to a degree which would ordinarily
be well within the scope of section 20. The boxers display skill, strength and
courage, but nobody pretends that they do good to themselves or others. The
onlookers derive entertainment, but none of the physical and moral benefits
which have been seen as the fruits of engagement in manly sports. I intend no
disrespect to the valuable judgment of McInearny J. in Pallante v. Stadiums Pty.
1976] V.R. 331[an Australian decision] when I say that the heroic efforts of that
learned judge to arrive at an intellectually satisfying account of the apparent immunity
of professional boxing from criminal process have convinced me that the task is
impossible. It is in my judgment best to regard this as another special situation
which for the time being stands outside the ordinary law of violence because
society chooses to tolerate it.[/i"

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Slightly off point, but would a similar case to Brown be decided the same if it came before the Supreme Court today? It's almost a 20 year old ruling now and there's some pretty old fashioned views on show from the majority. It was decided largely on the basis of the protection of morals, at a time when AIDS was probably still a big talking point. It's interesting reading the differences in opinion from the majority and the dissenting judgments - can't help but think that 20 years later, that case would have gone the other way...

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Quote: Scooter Nik "Cibaman - If you look at the case cited by Ferocious Ardvark, you'll find that they were willing participants too, yet felt the whole weight of the law.


Where is the real difference?'"


It comes down to whether an observer would feel personally threatened. In a boxing match the participants are ringed off from the speccies as are fans at a rugby match. The difference between those types of fights and say a pub brawl is that the latter is much more likely to spill over and result in injury to innocent bystanders.

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SL
20:00
Huddersfield-Catalans
SL
20:00
Hull KR-Castleford
Sat 10th Aug
SL
15:00
Leeds-Wigan
Sun 11th Aug
SL
15:00
Leigh-Hull FC
SL
15:00
LondonB-Warrington
Sat 17th Aug
SL
19:30
Warrington-Leeds
SL
17:00
Wigan-St.Helens
SL
14:30
Hull FC-LondonB
Sun 18th Aug
SL
13:30
Leigh-Salford
SL
15:00
Catalans-Hull KR
SL
18:30
Huddersfield-Castleford
Fri 23rd Aug
SL
20:00
Castleford-Warrington
SL
20:00
Leeds-Catalans
Sat 24th Aug
SL
15:00
St.Helens-Hull KR
SL
14:00
Salford-Huddersfield
Sun 25th Aug
SL
15:00
LondonB-Leigh
SL
15:00
Wigan-Hull FC
Fri 30th Aug
SL
20:00
Hull KR-Salford
SL
20:00
Leigh-Warrington
Tue 6th Aug
SL 2 Wigan28-6Leigh
Sun 4th Aug
SL 20 LondonB12-10Catalans
WSL2024 10 FeatherstoneW6-68LeedsW
WSL2024 10 BarrowW6-64St.HelensW
WSL2024 10 Wire W0-61York V
WSL2024 10 WiganW70-0Hudds W
L1 18 Keighley72-12Newcastle
L1 18 Oldham32-0Midlands
L1 18 Rochdale46-32Cornwall
L1 18 Workington24-28Crusaders
CH 20 Barrow24-24Bradford
CH 20 Dewsbury16-42Wakefield
CH 20 Featherstone24-16Batley
CH 20 Halifax38-18York
CH 20 Sheffield22-20Doncaster
CH 20 Whitehaven12-24Widnes
NRL 22 Penrith22-14Newcastle
NRL 22 Canterbury22-18Canberra
Sat 3rd Aug
SL 20 Hull FC6-46St.Helens
SL 20 Salford22-16Leeds
This is an inplay table and live positions can change.
Mens Betfred Super League XXVIII ROUND : 1
 PLDFADIFFPTS
Wigan 20 523 264 259 32
Hull KR 20 503 259 244 30
Warrington 20 502 267 235 28
Salford 20 377 382 -5 26
St.Helens 20 501 262 239 24
Catalans 20 376 286 90 24
 
Leeds 20 371 364 7 20
Leigh 20 398 314 84 19
Huddersfield 20 350 453 -103 14
Castleford 20 336 523 -187 13
Hull FC 20 274 612 -338 6
LondonB 20 210 735 -525 4
This is an inplay table and live positions can change.
Betfred Championship 2024 ROUND : 1
 PLDFADIFFPTS
Wakefield 18 626 222 404 34
Sheffield 18 510 303 207 26
Toulouse 17 516 224 292 25
Widnes 18 434 319 115 23
Bradford 18 421 321 100 22
Featherstone 18 464 375 89 18
 
Doncaster 18 338 432 -94 17
York 19 446 383 63 16
Batley 18 300 390 -90 16
Halifax 18 356 477 -121 14
Barrow 17 279 482 -203 13
Swinton 18 346 470 -124 12
Whitehaven 18 348 580 -232 12
Dewsbury 19 240 602 -362 2
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