And I hate to make it easy for you. But if you ignore me I'll probably just go away.

For a start I'd like people here who are actually interested in the club.

I'm going to remain positive as the future looks to be that. I'm fed up of bickering arguments that achieve nothing. We had enough of that with the rumours and counter rumours when Crusaders played down here. As it is to date there has been none of that rubbish at Wrexham and long may it continue.

I don't think I need to ignore you.

You're on my clubs forum producing posts which are now getting negative responses from neutrals as well.

If that doesn't tell you something nothing will. There will always be people like Pete_Zatoppin here to back you up though. None of the Hull fans can stand him on their site.

He's right you know.

My mother posts on there and she abandoned me outside Paragon station when I was 4

Who can blame her?

Oh fer flip's sake Cru,

Is the Scorps not MY club too then? What "neutrals"? It's mainly (if not entirely) the WC contingent.

And I don't need "back up". Never have. It's a matter of pride for me. Anything a person can't do without back-up they've no right doing.

I'll be honest Cru, I've never said this before, but given some of the whiny shiit I've heard from SOME of those Celtic Cru originals who now support the Wrexham Cru, there are some right pussies around. Debate is one of the great pleasures of life. Yet any dissenting views are met with "you shouldn't say things like this" "you should be banned" "Nobody is allowed on here to say nasty things about the Crusaders, because Mark Rowley and Phil Davies said so!" "Move on, nothing to see here".

And I'm afraid to say, that when people try to stifle debate, all I want to do is wind them up.

It's funny though, that I did all I could when the Scorps was formed to publicise Terraceculture's site as the forum of choice, when you lot were still on CTID. Then all of a sudden you move over and three or four comments get all blown out of proportion. There were more postings from the WC supporters whinging about what I and a few others said, than there were posts to earn your ire.

Now you can get all shouty and try and drown me out and do me down or (if you're AJH) try and defame me if you like. Willy waving contests are funny.

But I'm off now. Time for bed.

You're off full stop. Ignore for you and Pete_Zatopping I feel.

Now that's better already.

You can ignore the truth all you want , the RFL did it with the Celtic Crusaders , we kept on telling people and were accused of being bitter and jealous

But we were actually right , it was a house of cards , we didnt say that because we were bitter and jealous [ even though many probably were ] , we said it because it was plain to see by anybody willing to open their eyes

I hope genuinely that the club in Wrexham survive and prosper , but what will become apparent to you shortly is that many of the Celtic Crusaders heartland clubs ' SL supporters ' will be desperate for you to fail , they will want this because it will have a direct impact on their own clubs as it did on the clubs in the lower leagues last time

As for Grendel , I understand his pain , I dont agree with his sentiments , but I understand them , I think perhaps now he understands where we were all coming from 18 months ago

All the best

I understand where Grendel is coming from. I have understood the first 100 times he posted it.

I can't be @rsed with reading it any more to be honest. I will be a lot happier reading decent posts that aren't repetitive and the child like rants of Pete-Zatopping. Of that I have no doubt.

And to be fair Starbug we supported the Super League bid and thought it would be a success as we thought it was going to be done properly.

A skeleton staff, non payment of players, little to no marketing and generally doing things on the cheap leaves a very bad taste in the mouth. It will take years in South Wales to recover from this image that it isn't a place to expand. It is, I am sure of that, it just needed to be done properly.

For example, if Moss and Co had marketed a game down here like they did the opening fixture against Leeds then it would have sold out. I have no doubt about that. As it was Celtic Crusaders and their owners did not or could not. Either way it was not done. About two thirds through the season there was no merchandise in the club shop. A Championship 1 club might scrape by like this but a Super League club, I think not. As I say rule out the bid for Super League under Samuel but don't rule out South Wales altogether. If the money was there to do it all properly the club would be going from strength to strength now.

The club still achieved over 3,600 average gates and has shown youngsters breaking through after 2 years of having any kind of an academy. That was in spite of most things being done wrongly. Imagine what could be achieved if we could get somebody on board who could sustain a club down here for 5 years or more. I don't mean just scraping by like Samuel did but actually spending the salary cap and running a full age range academy also. After the first 5 years or so I think the club would be fully or close to self sufficient as the fans would support it. Don't forget we had a 3,600 average with a team that won 2 of 13 games at home all season.

People, though, will wrongly write South Wales off as a venture that should not have been taken. I agree this time, it should not have been taken under Samuel, but it is an area ripe for expansion but expansion with guaranteed money, infrastructure and a sound business plan. Hopefully with South Wales Scorpions this will be the case and if they don't have all of this in place I hope they don't get too ambitious too quickly.

I feel the Wrexham lot have this and can do a lot more than Samuel and Co could. I also feel, unlike others, that it is hardly Moss' fault that he was the only realistic person who wanted to buy the club at the going rate including debts. This is life and it gives Scorpions a chance to build a sustainable and more solid foundation in South Wales and if the Crusaders can get a solid foothold in North Wales I can only see it being more beneficial for Welsh Rugby League and Rugby League as a whole in the future.

Cheers Starbug, yes I think I do understand. I was new to SL and didn't understand the crazy politics that permeates it.

Cru I just found myself agreeing with nearly every single word you wrote there. Not all of it, but nearly. As such I think I have perhaps misjudged your position. Thought you were a bit more like ajh ("Move along here, nothing to see, everything's great now and stuff what's left behind"icon_wink.gif So I'm backing off. I'll leave this particular site for yourself and the new supporters to enjoy what exists now.

Will still be around the VT and the Scorps page and may still not be kind about the WC on the VT, but I'll stay off here and only post Scorps stuff on the Scorps page..

Apart from Grendel has anyone else spotted the irony in the heading of this thread?

'A sell out Likely'


Spookily accurate seeing as the way genuine Celtic fans from South Wales have been sold down the river