Grendel, I can't see how you can calling buying something off somebody that wants to sell stealing?

Samuel wanted rid and nobody else other than Moss wanted to buy for the going rate. Simple as that really. It wasn't stealing and with nobody willing or able to take the club in South Wales it can hardly be called stealing.

Takeover, yes, relocation, yes, stealing, hardly. For a club to be stolen it has to be taken from somebody that owns it. Samuel owned it and willingly sold it to Moss. Nobody in South Wales wanted to take the club on. To be fair, the crowds and interest towards the end of the season couldn't have helped. If the club had been more professional off the field and marketed better who knows but it is all ifs, buts and maybe's.

It's EASY to call it stealing Cru.

The club was bought, shut and "reopened" (IE A NEW CLUB FORMED) 150 miles away, with the MINIMUM connection to the original club possible that still allows the new club to use our franchise.

May not be theft in the legal sense, but as AJH could tell you (if he could actually be honest with himself) "legal" has nothing to do with right or wrong.

Morally it is theft.

If Moss was so hell bent on having his own RL club up in Wrexham, why didn't he just form one? Oh yeah, that's right, FAR easier to steal ours, shut it and replace it in SL with a barely recognisable replacement.

Without Moss, Samuel would have sold to BFL (or lose ALL his money) and the team would still be in its real home.

How would they have sold to BFL as I understand it they would only have taken the club without the debt which would not have been allowed to happen.

He cannot accept the club has been sold to someone in North Wales rather than Given to Someone in South Wales

Nail - head

This is where we all have a big problem


Who owns a sports club ?

The person running it ?

Or the people watching it ?

Sports clubs are ' owned ' by the fans , they exist because of the fans , for the fans

So Grendal does have a point , the Wrexham club is not his club , but it has taken his clubs position within the sport , ' His club ' Has been stolen , it has had it's identity taken from it

So if Dave Whelan had sold W1g4n to the owners of say Coventry football club , you would have been ok with that , because if he had , the RFL would not have stopped him

You of course would then have started to support Leigh

That is basically what has happened to the Celtic Crusaders , which was Grendels club , not Leighton Samuels club , he never owned it

If it Wigan being saved from going down the pan yes i would be happy. At least i would have a club to watch.

And there would be no Rugby league clubs if they just had to be run on supporters contribution. Without rich people buying the clubs and pumping money into them we would have no teams to watch.

Speaking of Leigh i hope they do well this year but unfortunately will have to do without my support this year as i cannot afford more than 2 season tickets. This year its Wigan and Crusaders i have not renewed my Leigh season ticket.

So you suggest that if the club presently known as W1g4n Warriors were to relocate to Coventry and then be known as the ' Warriors ' , with a new management , new coach , new players , playing in green and black stripes they would still be your club ?

And you would travel to Coventry to watch them as you currently do ?

Yeah right

For Grendel it obviously still hurts bitterly, the loss of the club from South Wales as it does myself.
But we have to move on , the NEW CLUB in Wrexham shares very little resemblance to the one that existed
in South Wales for it is a NEW CLUB, that happens to share some personnel from the club based in Bridgend. In time it will hopefully form an identity unique to the local area and spread the gospel of RL.

I will follow the progress of Crusaders RL in Wrexham from South Wales, as they are the Welsh representative in Super League (for now atleast) ,but I cannot follow them in the way I supported the Celtic Crusaders, financially or otherwise .

The South Wales Scorpions are the way forward for RL in South Wales now ,all our energy must go into this,
mine and many others will , and I hope Grendel and other fans of Welsh Rugby League will do the same. Hopefully we'll get it right this time.

As an aside .....I SEE OUR U18s BEAT THE ENGLISH AGAIN ON THURSDAY EVENING!!!

Seeing you cannot spell Wigan then why try and reply Warriors ia the super league tag added on Celtic was the super league tag added on.

And yes i would travel as it would still be the same club.

I could understand your argument if the club had been called Bridgend or even South Wales but it was not so had no location in its title i know this could be a little hard for you to understand but it is fact get over it and go back to your own little club. That should by the way be playing in Championship 1 this year stones and glass houses.

If my team moved 180 miles or even 20 miles to another location i would not see it as my club.Your team is in the town or city you play in to be honest.It is not rocket science.I feel for grendel even though i think they took my teams franchise spot. This game of rugby league is becoming a joke, and i am actually thinking all heartland clubs should break away from superleague e.Fax,leigh,widnes,barrow etc have no chance of top flight rugby with the rfl in charge.The way it is going is a farce, with no incentives for championship teams.Fans are losing faith in championship clubs and prefer watch football.Grendel dont worry mate i have lost faith in the rfl and with no promotion and relegation is the biggest joke ever.

The team you support is your own choice it matters not if its 1 mile away or 200 miles away Wigan have supporters in London i was talking to a Leeds supporter that lived in Birmingham and had done all his life. This club was started in South Wales it fulfilled all the criteria for a franchise spot so how you can say it took your teams i dont know i dont agree with the decision not to remove 1 super league team and bring 3 new ones in but that was the decision of the RFL and we have to live with it.
For this great game to grow it needs to expand it cannot just live in the heartlands. We need to be exposed to a wider audience.
I personally think we should have Super league 1 and super league 2 both with 10 to 12 full time pro teams with the top 2 from SL2 being promoted and bottom 2 of SL1 going down the cap should be £2 million for SL1 and £1.6 million for SL2 and a limit of no more than 8 overseas players in any squad. That would then help to bring on our national squads. There are lots of things wrong with the way the game is run but until the RFL have a big clear out and put in people that can bring us to the next level then we have to put up with it

Touchy about our little joke are we ?

The same club ? , dont be bloody stupid , so are you suggesting that any club could change it's name to something obscure , like ' The Titans ' and then play anywhere in the world , and still remain the same club ?

And yes you are correct we should be in Championship 1 this season , unfortunatley it was taken out of our hands

My club has moved to Wrexham, they had no chioce, no one in South Wales wanted to help us.

I am unhappy but I still have my season ticket and will travel to all matches, but then i used to travel home and away last season.
As Ben Flower said in the paper on Saturday (Daily Post i think), "I'm sure the loyal South Wales supporters will travel and support the club they love".
Too bloody right, they are still our club.

No club ever keeps the same players or coaching staff for an indefinite amount of time and if we did, we would be wooden spoon holders again this season.