and the crowd for the leigh widnes? with how far to travel?

Hence the reason you havent had any Leigh fans on here bagging yours

We however have different problems to you

Best of luck

and givent he crusaders were given a licence, have the advantages of superleague marketing, the backing of the sky machine far greater than the clubs outside SL, the advantages of quota dispensation and the freedom of not being relegated - you feel it's a worthy comparison to make having less than 3k for a home game with trying to galvanise hope from fans of clubs who were long ago excluded from all the above???

You may - I don't!

Omg you lot are still bitching about the licenses. Move on for flips sake.

What a daft comment! Like I'm going to say "aye ok - the RFL have shat upon us but it's ok now lads - lets move on eh"??
errrr NO! Not until the wrong has been righted!!

But that wasn't the thrust of my post as well you know young man. The argument (by now on this thread) is the comparisons made to the <3K crowd crusaders can attract compared with that of NL clubs.

I also found it a little ironic that when the reverse argument was made about Crusaders crowds compared to other clubs in the NL, the crusaders fans (rightly) were quick to defend the fact that freebies were handed out and that those figures should be included in substantive comparisons.
Yet - when the Vikins achieved 5k through their initiative it was rounded upon by the same group of fans!!! only a side issue and hardly important in the great scheme of life!

My dad always used to say - "it'll either rain or get dark afoore t'morning lad"!! Wise man me dad!!!

What Leigh get is their problem. Perhaps you'd like to take that up with them.


Widnes had 4,354 paying spectators at home to Leigh.




That's right. The licences have been handed out. I'm quite happy to wait another 3 years and see what happens then. I'm not moaning about Celtic.

You do know why we were rewarded the licenses don't you?

Yh that question was to FEv fan btw.

I don't believe the assessments and conclusions of what criteria were satisfield have ever been made public in their entirity. They weren't last time I asked.

Again not really relevant cos we have them. Even if Fev had one I'd still be voicing opposition to them.
Maybe it's your age - you aren't old enough to have seen the crusaders compete and occasionally succeed against all odds yet. It may happen and you may have a life long afinity with the crusaders (or any other club).
If that opportunity is ever removed from you, you[i may[/i understand how many of us feel.

It would be right if all fans of all clubs had that hope - then some of the crowds may return and you would see some comparable statistics.

Look I'm 15 and I've missed 3 home games since they were made and never been to an away game. And yes I feel your pain. But im simply saying What was done was done now get over it and move on.

And you didn't answer my question.
You probaly won't so heres the answer, its pretty simple.

To expand the game and to get more professional teams and more fans in Wales.And if Scotland get a pro team and the franchise system opens up again that Scottish team will get it for the exact same reasons.

Best of luck to your season.

And Pepe can catch me out here if he remembers what i said to him last night

First of all I do understand your pain.

Widnes, Leigh and Fev are great clubs in their own right. They have history, a fan base and on paper a lot more going for them than Celtic Crusaders.

If we could choose to be in Super League by another means and have promotion and relegation then we would do. Whether that would include the other clubs then that would be down to winning promotion.

Sometimes it is easy for me to tar everybody with the same brush. If a Widnes fan has a go at me then it is all too easy and sometimes logical to have a go at their club rather than them personally as that is what they have done to you and is the only thing you really know about them. You know nothing other than the club they support so it is the only option to have a go at their club and fight fire with fire.

Don't get me wrong here if I was to see a Widnes fan, Leigh fan, Fev fan whoever I would prefer to have a chat and a drink with them over what we call 'plastic' Liverpool, Man United, Chelsea football fans down here who think a replica shirt and Sky subscription makes them a fan. It doesn't. Your average rugby league fan loves the game. They don't love it for what it can give to them as your football fan would. For this reason I find a lot of rugby league fans knowledgeable and passionate. The total opposite to those football fans I spoke of earlier.

We have got the franchise. Not really our fault. If the opportunity was there I would like anybody to find a rugby league club that would not take the opportunity presented to them if it was there. Maybe we were ready, maybe evidence suggests we were not. The big thing for me was, it was now or never. If we did not get Super League this time I think the next go at rugby league down here would be away in the future if ever again. We had the opportunity and took it with both hands. Progression in Super League will take time but the work is being done and thing are being planned and I think we will succeed this time.

Rugby League needs to be expanded whether people like it or not. Union has bypassed league in so many ways over the years change needs to be made for the good of the game. To get a good share of the sponsorship, TV and whatever other revenue we need to expand. A good example of this is this year there are Brains Beer advertising boards at every Super League, Championship and Championship 1 ground I believe. Would this have been achievable without Crusaders involvement in Super League and Brains taking notice of rugby league and putting their money into sponsorship. No way. Why would a Welsh company that sells the vast majority of its product in Wales sponsor a sport that has no Welsh participation. In short it wouldn't. If you think it would then look outside the sport. The only other sporting teams they sponsor are Wales Union and Glamorgan County Cricket.

People think they can put us down with a 'what do Crusaders bring to Super League?' question. Hundreds of children playing rugby league who haven't played the game previously. 3,000 or so fans who pay to watch a game between a Welsh team who didn't exist 4 years ago and one they won't have heard of 4 years ago. Sponsorship from companies that had no involvement with Super League previously and have put money into the game in general and not kept it within the Welsh club. There aren't many teams who can say that. Just taking one point of children playing the game. In your Widnes or Leigh area children would have played rugby regardless. Not all make it but most children at one point or other play rugby league. No children down here will have played rugby league before the forming of the Crusaders. The club now have reserves, U-18, U-16 and 4 foundation regional squads feeding into the U-16's. That is around 175 Welsh lads who have not even played rugby league before Crusaders.

I have no axe to grind with any other fans and would love to get on great. Arguments escalate and things get said that people should not. I like Widnes as a club, always have with what JD has done there and a few other Welsh greats. It is nothing against Widnes personally. If Saints had a go at my club I would react by having a pop at their club. There is no particular agenda against a certain club, it just happens to be the club we get most negativity and put downs from.

All I will say is the fans who do not agree with us being in SL and ask what we bring to rugby league, just scratch the surface and see it for what it is. A new club in a new area that are achieving things all the time. If rugby league does not expand it will stagnate. It will have no appeal outside of the founding areas and will be frozen out of TV money, and international sponsorship by forward thinking sports like union and football. We need to keep pace and whether people like it or not we need to expand to do this.

If somebody puts a structured argument to us then I will try to debate and give answers the best I can and as honest as I can. When the debate starts and ends with 'What do Celtic Crusaders bring to Super League?' then a bit of research would go a long way.

Well said!!!!

Like I said "Expanding the game".

Like if a new welsh professional team was made in Bridgend for example, they would start of in the lower leagues like the Ithsmian, or what its called, Bridgend fc ,or what name they chose, wouldnt have many fans. But if they got promoted more fans would go.

And I would go and support them as their would be local and I love football.