Roby, Hicks, and Child were all refs in the Championship before becoming SL refs, so I don't think the 'closed shop' accusation stands up. The issue may be more that now SL refs are full time it's more complicated to promote a part-time ref who might very well not want to leave his 'day job'.

I agree something needs to be done to increase the supply and competence of officials coming through from the lower leagues so that the current SL incumbents feel under real pressure to perform, but that's been the case for many years and nobody seems to have the first clue how to make it happen. Cummins' biggest failing as controller of referees IMO.

That is my point though as 3 have come up but Smith, Ganson and Klein have 'gone', not demoted but for whatever reason no longer working as an on field ref in the UK. That is a closed shop IMHO.

It was a serious question can anyone remember the last SL ref to be demoted and replaced permanently? I'm struggling to think of one and that includes before they went full time.

All three who came up had had the odd gig in SL when an incumbent SL ref got demoted for a game or two. Klein certainly got dropped once or twice and I think even Ganson did once. Alibert has been conspicuously absent for much of this season although he is reffing us against Salford this week.

Temporary demotions [ido[/i happen. They just need to happen more regularly. But the issue with part time vs full time makes it more difficult now than it used to be.

The larger issues, as I said elsewhere, are availability and training. I don't believe that any ref goes onto the field intending to cock up, so disciplinary demotions are only of use if coupled with training to rectify shortcomings.

One simple, small thing, that might encourage more people to aspire to the role of referee, IMO, is to not to give them kit that would garish at a Brazilian Carnival. Lime green and cerise, with respectively, yellow and blue check.

And that ref cam makes them look like partially assimilated Borg.

Okay, refs are maybe never going to be 'cool', but going out of our way to make them look idiots isn't going to inspire respect.

Yes, that's definitely it.

I did all my referees qualifications and when Big Nige gave me my kit I just couldn't bring myself to do it.

If I wanted to go around looking like a scouser on a day trip to Blackpool I'd be shopping at TK Max.

Oh temp demotions happen but at no point has a ref in SL been demoted and one from the lower league taken his place permanently in SL history (Unless someone can think of one).

This must be for 1 of 2 reasons surely.
1 There has never been a ref in the league below better than the worst in SL which is hard to believe in just short of 18 years.
Or.
2 Slap's on the wrist aside a SL ref is certain he can retain his SL status even if he power slams a player or tries to garrote a lino .

This is my point as whilst a SL ref is so certain he is safe he subconsciously won't push himself because nobody would. The complete lack of pressure from below isn't healthy.

You are aware I'm not Craig Sandercock or those other supporters right?
How about you actually ignore them and join the debate.

I'd say your point would be wrong then, or maybe gives more insight into your personal approach the job.

The RFL directly employ the referees, they are on Red Hall's payroll and as such are covered by UK and EU employment law. I think you'd find it extremely difficult rocking up to a tribunal with "he was crap" as a reason for dismissal

You might not be them, but the rhetoric sounds eerily similar. It's amazing how fans of clubs who have had a few calls go against them want a 'debate' about refereeing standards, and yet when they get a few in their favour they go strangely quiet.

The standards of officiating in RL are no better or no worse than in any other team sport. Humans make the decisions, so there will always be errors. The sooner everyone accepts that and stops bleating when their team cops for a dodgy call, the better. The constant griping about refs in both football and rugby is bordering on pathetic.

So folks don't get comfy when they know their job is safe then?

I'm not sure I mentioned them being dismissed. In fact I didn't. I did mention a demotion however which could easily be covered if the wording of the employment contract.

It looks like your arguement here is that because they are fulltime that means they can never be demoted no matter how 'crap' they are.

Because you want it to. I have in the past made this very point myself.I'll ask you a question if you don't mind.
Should we have the best refs in the top league or just those that happen to be in the SL spots ATM. That is my whole point.

We seem to have no method for swapping out a ref who isn't making the grade for one that is.

So we have seven full-time referees and you decide to demote one.

Where is he demoted to?

Is the demotion temporary or permanent?

What happens to his salary package?

What salary package will the promoted referee be on?

What happens to the promoted referee if it's found that he is no better, or possibly worse than the demoted ref?

That's probably why we need a bigger pool of fulltime refs, so we can do that. But then of course there is the money needed to employ these refs.

If we had say 7 Full time refs in SL and the same in the CC then it would probably be ok and a good idea to demote them if they aren't performing. However the performance of refs can be interpreted in different ways so there would need to be a proper referees performance department made up of ex-players etc..