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Quote: General Zod. "The sort of "robust business model" that involves hiring a coach from Netto's, saves shed loads of cash by ripping off the fans and staying well under the salary cap by keeping the cash in order to post a profit only to go and buy it's players from the Antiques Road Show? - No thanks.'"


I agree the coach is an unnecessarily cheap option, but I'd settle for FC's balance sheet (which shows half your level of debt), 5 years of profitability, and independent credit rating over yours any day. Admittedly you've made some great investment decisions, though, like the £50,000 Hudgell said was spent on Saltend facilities. icon_lol.gif

As for ripping the fans off, that'd be charging £60 for a 2010 membership scheme in July 2009 that according to your chairman the fans don't understand, wouldn't it? Or ordering a £5 pair of socks from your website and automatically having a basket total of £10.50 - £5 to post them (a pair of socks! icon_lol.gif) plus a default donation you have to opt out of.

Anyway, playingwise we're both on zero points, aren't we?

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Quote: Mrs Barista "I agree the coach is an unnecessarily cheap option, but I'd settle for FC's balance sheet (which shows half your level of debt), 5 years of profitability, and independent credit rating over yours any day. Admittedly you've made some great investment decisions, though, like the £50,000 Hudgell said was spent on Saltend facilities.
Nice! icon_biggrin.gif

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Sweet baby Jesus and the orphans.
So does the Balance sheet show a credit balance of exactly the same value as the asset for the players? And do you know if they re value this each year or if it remains constant? Just curious from a financial / accounting point of view. thanks

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Quote: Chillibeano "The thought has crossed my mind that the profit generated by FC for 2008 could potentially be purely due to an increase in the valuation of the players.'"



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Quote: jibson1 "So does the Balance sheet show a credit balance of exactly the same value as the asset for the players? And do you know if they re value this each year or if it remains constant? Just curious from a financial / accounting point of view. thanks'"


Revalued each year. So this year debit assets =+162,500, credit revaluation reserve (capital and reserves) +162,500.

The revaluation reserve includes both the player valuation plus a revaluation of tangible fixed assets.

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Quote: Mrs Barista "Fully agree. Catalans has been great IMO - competitive team, strong local interest and support, but if London and Celtic were replaced by Widnes and Halifax can't say I'd be bothered. Wonder how much money's been spent trying to get London going over 30 years for what - gates of 3k? Time to stop throwing good money after bad IMO.'"
I realy do get depressed when I see this argument trotted out every time the game out side the M62 is talked about Why wont the flat cap brigade see that if we do not expand the game is dead Wales & London are vital to our continued existance we should be asking for more clubs from there not abandoning 30 years of effort in London. What is the alternative a retreat to the clubs of the 1900,s? The report shows that non of our clubs are in good health even Leeds & FC are not imune from a shortage of cash. How long do you think this game would last if we lost the expansion clubs? SKY would pull out & they are the only real source of income we have. Union would snap up most of our players as League would have to revert to semi pro. Not expanding & spreading has not been an option since 1995 when super league went full time professional. It is no use looking back with rose tinted glasses this game was on the verge of bankrupcy untill Sky stepped in we had had 100 years to get it right & failed. We will not be allowed another 100 years we have to get it right or die.

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Quote: General Zod. "The sort of "robust business model" that involves hiring a coach from Netto's, saves shed loads of cash by ripping off the fans and staying well under the salary cap by keeping the cash in order to post a profit only to go and buy it's players from the Antiques Road Show? - No thanks.'"


Still a better one than losing £1/2m every year though isn't it?

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[b:16wvcohs]"To play your best football you need players with enthusiasm and drive and energy." - [i:16wvcohs]Peter Sterling[/i:16wvcohs][/b:16wvcohs] [quote="Adam Pearson said not":16wvcohs][b:16wvcohs]I know there are two franchises and two clubs (in Hull) and that will remain forever more[/b:16wvcohs][/quote:16wvcohs]:d7dc4b20b2c2dd7b76ac6eac29d5604e_12839.png



Quote: General Zod. "The sort of "robust business model" that involves hiring a coach from Netto's, saves shed loads of cash by ripping off the fans and staying well under the salary cap by keeping the cash in order to post a profit only to go and buy it's players from the Antiques Road Show? - No thanks.'"


You are clearly afraid.
Very afraid.

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Quote: Beverley red "I realy do get depressed when I see this argument trotted out every time the game out side the M62 is talked about Why wont the flat cap brigade see that if we do not expand the game is dead Wales & London are vital to our continued existance we should be asking for more clubs from there not abandoning 30 years of effort in London. What is the alternative a retreat to the clubs of the 1900,s? The report shows that non of our clubs are in good health even Leeds & FC are not imune from a shortage of cash. How long do you think this game would last if we lost the expansion clubs? SKY would pull out & they are the only real source of income we have. Union would snap up most of our players as League would have to revert to semi pro. Not expanding & spreading has not been an option since 1995 when super league went full time professional. It is no use looking back with rose tinted glasses this game was on the verge of bankrupcy untill Sky stepped in we had had 100 years to get it right & failed. We will not be allowed another 100 years we have to get it right or die.'"


I'm not against expansion, and as said I think Catalans is fantastic. If London's gates remain at 3kish after say 60 years and another assortment of people trying losing money on it, do we still continue? I just think the importance to Sky of London in the competition with embarrassingly low attendances is overstated. If without London there is no Sky money, then clearly it's something that needs to be continued otherwise there is no sport, but using the criteria of the last round of franchises they must be borderline.

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Quote: Mrs Barista "Revalued each year. So this year debit assets

TBH i'm not interested in where they are posted to in the accounts i just want to know why they bother doing it at all if it means nothing.

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Quote: Kosh "Exactly. It's a not-very-subtle bargaining device when it comes to discussions with potential buyers, otherwise as far as I can tell it has bugger all effect on anything. Net worth is meaningless unless you're either selling a business or winding it up.'"


It can also help boost a company's credit rating icon_wink.gif

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Quote: Gordon Gekko "TBH i'm not interested in where they are posted to in the accounts i just want to know why they bother doing it at all if it means nothing.'"


I wouldn't have thought the playing staff of any club had a residual value, it's not like football where transfer fees are the norm. In RL there are very few players who actually move for a transfer fee.

In a way the playing staff should be classed as a business liability as if a club gets to the point where it would need to cash in this asset it would more than likely just let the player go just to get the wage bill down.

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Quote: Chillibeano "Actually it 'potentially' does. Especially if you were required to remove them from your balance sheet.

If they were written off the balance sheet then this would mean the write down would either need to be shown as a cost in the P&L account or alternatively written off directly to reserves.

The thought has crossed my mind that the profit generated by FC for 2008 could potentially be purely due to an increase in the valuation of the players.

I am only summising and I wouldn't think this is likely, but you never know. Then again given last season I would think a reduction in the value of the players would be much more likely!!'"


icon_lol.gif icon_lol.gif Oh dear.

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Quote: Mrs Barista "Sweet baby Jesus and the orphans.
That’s not completely correct though is it Mrs Barista?!

There are instances within IFRS when the revaluation gain / loss goes directly through the Income Statement. For instance if a revaluation increase is reversing a previous impairment that went through the P&L.

Since the treatment of including players valuations on the balance sheet is not correct treatment in the accounts – who are we to say what is happening to any revaluation surplus or deficit anyway? That equally could be treated in a way that would best suit the ‘look’ of the accounts.

All I would say is while the clubs accounts are being qualified by the auditors it is best to take the profit figure with a pinch of salt, unless of course you get hold of a copy and can scrutinise the figures behind the profit.

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If only Vince was here to sort this mess out for us.

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