Skipped through most of the second half in bursts of x12 FF. Felt a little bit bad, because the players put the effort in (as far as I could tell at that speed). Same old stale storylines in SL again this season though, innit? Still, we’re safe and spared that particular re-run.

Team did really to get the wins against Wakefield, Warrington and Toulouse when it really mattered, and turn the season around after Tony Smith shat the bed. Credit to Danny McGuire too, for that.

Fingers crossed Willie Peters will bring something new and interesting next year. The language from the new players and Delaney is very different, which is… something, hopefully.

Based on viewing the first half at normal speed, I wonder if Litten could become a latter day Sam Obst. I liked Sam Obst. The world was younger and brighter when he played. Or I was at least, which is similar from my perspective.

Might play chess against my iPad on the 0 setting to replicate the feeling of supporting St Helens and cheer myself up.

Ref had a, stinker. There spoiling the game

What ref we might has had a 10yr old kid doing it he would have done better then him

I think it is symptomatic of a deeper issue.

Since the start of the 1990s, the league has been won by Wigan 12 times, by Leeds 8 times, Saints 9 times and Bradford 4 times (the last being 17 years ago). Assuming I can count properly in this heat. A lot of the refs now won’t have any memory of anything different, and likely struggle to imagine that it even could be different. I think it is true for players too. If they want to win, they know you have to go to one of the clubs that always win.

I think the achievements of Powell and Radford and Watson are arguably more impressive than most of the more decorated coaches because they did it into the wind.

RL has survived in broadly the same format since the 19th century because fans can always imagine that success is just over the horizon. I’m doing it know - what if Willie Peters is the one? Even if your own club is struggling, you can look at another that is doing better and imagine emulating them. It is getting harder though. If it is a Saints-Wigan GF this year, I won’t want to watch. Even one of them might be too much to stomach.

If IMG have some radical suggestions, I’d be open to hearing them at least. The SL well does feel like it is running dry.

My main gripe with Refs is consistency. Teams like Rovers and FC get pinged regularly. Watch other teams and nothing. It's not sour grapes to I've actually paused the offsides. It's awful. Don't get me on about the 6 again. I have no confidence in the refs. I've watch both FC and Rovers and said he'll penalize us now. Low and below he does.

Seems like SL’s competitive imbalance was highlighted at the MKM yesterday. Although Wakefield giving Wigan a bit of a kicking undermines my argument/gives a bit of cheer.

It isn’t just the ref or the coach or the academy… it is everything, and it is really hard to overcome that kind of entrenched superiority. Leeds might buy their way back to being competitive, but I don’t really see any other club making gaining sustained ‘earned success’. Even the temporary version is a massive ask. It’s nobody’s fault, I just don’t think the path is really there any more.

I’m starting to wonder if club rugby should be a part-time second level, with regional pro teams like in Super Rugby and the URC in the other code. Something freshen things up while keeping the traditional foundations in place.

Maybe wait to see if Willie Peters is a genius first though, yeah?!

Leeds “buy their way back to being competitive “? Oh dear you are one sad individual,lose the chip ffs!

I'm not really sure what your point is.

Leeds have more resource than any of the other current also rans, so it seems plausible. I suppose you could make a case for Warrington, in fairness.

Or do you not like the inference that wealthy clubs mostly buy rather than earn their success? I mean, when Rovers were good in the 1980s, money played a very big role... and then Wigan one-upped everyone, and now thiszzzzzzzz.

We don't have to listen to all that 'culture' stuff. Having Jamie Peacock as DoR for a spell gives us an exemption. Check, it's in the small print.

Also, and I'm probably over crediting you here, we don't want to be gaslit into making the mistakes that exacerbate the 'challenges' we face. Well, I don't. Some other Rovers fans no doubt have a sunnier disposition. Although, at least a few are trying to work out how much compensation the club would have to pay St Helens to forfeit our next game 48-0, so optimism is in somewhat short supply.

Have you met Gary Hetherington?!

Are you suggesting he is cautious with his spending?

If Leeds continue as not really being perennial contenders, there's a decent chance that he'd eventually be replaced by somebody with slightly different priorities. If the SL scriptwriters do eventually come up with a new story line, 'Leeds are good again' seems like one of the most likely - if not the most compelling from my perspective.

Sorry if I missed your point completely.

Patience, long-termism and building bottom-up being luxuries only the wealthy can afford is my ‘thing’ at the moment.

Being reminded by fans of successful clubs that they finished fifth one year, but they stuck with it and were patient and ultimately enjoyed the rewards is very much twisting my melon.

Sure, good structures and culture are valuable. But I just feel that chasing something that I increasingly believe is out of reach (emulating much better resourced clubs [I think you may be interpreting ‘buying success’ more narrowly than me]) may prevent us from emulating Hastings-era Salford, Bullyball-era Hull and Powell-era Cas in having some temporary relative success. Since the end of the definitely-not-bottom-up Morgan era at Rovers, we’ve had no end of ‘building for the future’ and 5-year planning. On the pitch it has not gone well. RL folk are super-wedded to the idea that certain virtuous behaviours should lead to success and therefore the plan was sound and it must just have been the execution that was off.

I don’t think Saints and Wigan, for example, have some sort of magical formula or special DNA. Or if they do it is not the key differentiator. They now just have substantial inbuilt advantages that can’t be overcome simply by doing things ‘the right way’.

It’s a bleak truth but I think a club like Rovers could be more successful if it was acknowledged and accepted. Or everybody might despair and give up, that’s another possibility.

I mean fans of Aston Villa or Crystal Palace don’t wonder at what differentiates Manchester City or Chelsea, and wouldn’t be accused of having a chip on their shoulder for discussing it. Tbf, my ‘tiresome and entitled’ comment was uncalled for. I’m just fed up with it - happens periodically. It’s just maybe the periods are getting longer and the gaps shorter.

Gosh, I hope Willie Peters does have a magic formula… or beans or something.

Mate, you've right got monk on, have you dropped all your test tubes or something?
I'll cheer you up, I've had a ludicrously terrible year, get in touch chief.

Sorry to hear that mate. I’ll drop you a PM later on.

I know I’m being a bit melodramatic about the rugby. It’s just stuff like that being our 13th straight defeat against St Helens. They’ve also beaten Hull 14 times in a row. Minds me of the bit from 1984…

For St Helens, always, at every moment there will be the thrill of victory, the sensation of trampling on an enemy who is helpless. If you want a picture of the future of SL, imagine a boot stamping on a human face - for ever.

And that’s fine. It’s the holier than thou, ‘you’re prioritising the wrong things’ BS, from fans of clubs that don’t have to prioritise, that sticks in my craw a bit. Like we’re watching morality play rather than an uneven battle of resources.

As I say, bit melodramatic.

As long as nobody says ‘the salary cap is the same for everybody’, I’ll be fine.