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'Thus I am tormented by my curiosity and humbled by my ignorance.' from History of an Old Bramin, The New York Mirror (A Weekly Journal Devoted to Literature and the Fine Arts), February 16th 1833.:d7dc4b20b2c2dd7b76ac6eac29d5604e_33809.png

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Quote: Jake the Peg "Why would a lower cap be bad for the sport? If players earned 60 grand a year instead of 100 grand would it diminish the sport in any way? we may lose a small number of players to RU but that would be it. Players would just earn less (as they did for the previous 100 years of the game). The money just goes straight into the pockets of players and agents'"


Fair point. You still want it to be attractive to promising youngsters and have to remember that it is a short career based on 1, 2 and 3 year contracts. If the quota came down to 3 at the same time, that could mitigate some of the negative impacts.

A return to 12 teams would mean an extra £200k for each of those remaining... but a bleak future for those dropping out - or the prospect of mergers. Squads of 24 and just 3 players on the interchange bench could be considered, for the domestic game.

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'Thus I am tormented by my curiosity and humbled by my ignorance.' from History of an Old Bramin, The New York Mirror (A Weekly Journal Devoted to Literature and the Fine Arts), February 16th 1833.:d7dc4b20b2c2dd7b76ac6eac29d5604e_33809.png

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Quote: Big Dave T "To play devils advocate again, why should we even need a cap? Why shouldnt clubs be able to run themselves properly as other businesses have to, within their means?'"


Because sport is fundamentally different to other businesses in that you need to maintain your competition. And also the aim for many involved in BODs is glory not profits. One benefactor, richer than all the rest, could bankroll whole decades of dominance while interest withers elsewhere. Even the ultra-capatilist USA recognizes that.

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MERGERS icon_eek.gif

oh dear oh dear...but it may be only way in some cases, when the hits the fan

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Quote: Mild Rover "One benefactor, richer than all the rest, could bankroll whole decades of dominance while interest withers elsewhere. Even the ultra-capatilist USA recognizes that.'"


Not an issue for Soccer though, the worlds biggest sport!

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Standing up to the forum bully. It must be working, he doesn't like me...i'm devastated:



Quote: TKOAH "Remind me again who went to the RFL first, therefore they made the money available to all clubs?
It was Hull unless of course you have a link to prove otherwise. icon_biggrin.gif

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Quote: Mrs Barista "The FACTS are that we have made profit for 5 years and ANY club bar Leeds would swap their operating model and fanbase for ours in a heartbeat. '"


Hull's "operating model" appears to require having a large number of fans and then doing everything possible to alienate them.

Do Hull make a profit because of the board or in spite of them?

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Quote: Mrs Barista "5 years of profitability mate. The best businesses prune as they go along to maintain financial progression year on year. Others just lose £1.9m over 5 years then ask for public money when their is no commercial business case for the 14,000 capacity they included in their franchise bid. A bit spoilt if you ask me. To cut a long story short there's not a cat in hells chance of the FC board achieving what Rovers have in Neil Hudgell's reign as Rovers chairman. The Hetherington's have been involved in 2 bankrupt clubs before and only a £1M RFL hand-out and the fortune of playing at the KC enabled an easy ride with Hull SL Ltd.

And as for you stating there is "no commercial business case for a 14,000 capacity stadium", that is complete dross. New stadiums / stands / facilities have accounted for a 40% increase in gates across all sport attendances.

To add to that, 100% of covered terracing sold out 100% of the time of the SL season which confirms demand out stripping supply hence the urgent need for an increase in that specific catagory of terracing.

As Neil Hudgell said, Rovers' losses this season have to be viewed in the context of paying the full salary cap - something which if FC had have done, then they wouldn't have made a profit.

If both sets of boards had similar resources/facilities, then there's no doubt to me would would do better.

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'Thus I am tormented by my curiosity and humbled by my ignorance.' from History of an Old Bramin, The New York Mirror (A Weekly Journal Devoted to Literature and the Fine Arts), February 16th 1833.:d7dc4b20b2c2dd7b76ac6eac29d5604e_33809.png

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Quote: Big Dave T "Not an issue for Soccer though, the worlds biggest sport!'"


IMO it is a massive issue for football. A mismatch is more likely to produce a surprise result than rugby, but you also have distorting factors such as the Champions League and Roman Abramovich. The dream, if not quite dead, is in a pretty deep coma for all but 4 clubs in England. And none of them has a particularly robust business model as far as I can tell.

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Quote: General Zod. "To cut a long story short there's not a cat in hells chance of the FC board achieving what Rovers have in Neil Hudgell's reign as Rovers chairman. The Hetherington's have been involved in 2 bankrupt clubs before and only a £1M RFL hand-out and the fortune of playing at the KC enabled an easy ride with Hull SL Ltd.

And as for you stating there is "no commercial business case for a 14,000 capacity stadium", that is complete dross. New stadiums / stands / facilities have accounted for a 40% increase in gates across all sport attendances.

To add to that, 100% of covered terracing sold out 100% of the time of the SL season which confirms demand out stripping supply hence the urgent need for an increase in that specific catagory of terracing.

As Neil Hudgell said, Rovers' losses this season have to be viewed in the context of paying the full salary cap - something which if FC had have done, then they wouldn't have made a profit.

If both sets of boards had similar resources/facilities, then there's no doubt to me would would do better.'"


icon_lol.gif

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Quote: General Zod. "To cut a long story short there's not a cat in hells chance of the FC board achieving what Rovers have in Neil Hudgell's reign as Rovers chairman. The Hetherington's have been involved in 2 bankrupt clubs before and only a £1M RFL hand-out and the fortune of playing at the KC enabled an easy ride with Hull SL Ltd. .'"


Perhaps the Hetheringtons have learnt from experience, which is why they run the only 2 profitable clubs in SL. Even without the £1m handout, our debt would be considerably less than yours.

Quote: General Zod. "And as for you stating there is "no commercial business case for a 14,000 capacity stadium", that is complete dross. New stadiums / stands / facilities have accounted for a 40% increase in gates across all sport attendances.

To add to that, 100% of covered terracing sold out 100% of the time of the SL season which confirms demand out stripping supply hence the urgent need for an increase in that specific catagory of terracing..'"


There is not one shred of evidence that Rovers would sell out a 14,000 stadium on a regular basis. If anything the fact you are unable to sell out what you have now is a solid reason for commercial investors not to put any money in. It's silly to predict the elasticity of demand in such aggressive terms when your average gate has gone down this year despite a regular season 4th place. In the current environment it's hardly an attractive investment.

Quote: General Zod. "
As Neil Hudgell said, Rovers' losses this season have to be viewed in the context of paying the full salary cap - something which if FC had have done, then they wouldn't have made a profit.

If both sets of boards had similar resources/facilities, then there's no doubt to me would would do better.'"


How do you know what profits FC have made this season - the accounts aren't due to be filed until next August? Plus Rovers have made losses 5 years on the bounce, and not spent the full cap in the other 4, so that's a bit of a limp rationale. You've paid the full cap for the first time, done very well in the league and it's made no difference to getting people through the gate and you aren't well-organised enough in terms of retail opportunities to maximise revenue.

Our board have their faults, but the fact is that with our resilient attendances in the region of 13,500 and excellent merchandising and sponsorship arrangements, they've bucked the trend and reduced debt significantly over the last 5 years, albeit helped by 3 major final appearances. Criticise the recruitment and admin if you like, but to suggest the board's financial delivery is down to good luck when everyone else bar Leeds is in the financial mire, is a bit soft.

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Quote: Mrs Barista "Perhaps the Hetheringtons have learnt from experience, which is why they run the only 2 profitable clubs in SL.'"

Leeds didn't make a profit and had Hull SL Ltd. paid a full salary cap, they wouldn't have made a profit either so your sentiment is wrong.

Quote: Mrs Barista "Even without the £1m handout, our debt would be considerably less than yours.'"

"Hull SL Ltd." (previously "Gateshead SL Ltd." after it's inception as "Made Later Ltd."icon_wink.gif was created in 1998 and has had Sky money for every year since, with the fortune of the KC Stadium generating an increased fan-base which also removed the need to invest in "game-day facilities", specifically.

"Hull Kingston Rovers FC Ltd" has been trading since 1905 and is therefore still subject to the substantial knock-on effects (such as having to invest in "game-day facilities"icon_wink.gif of the ground switch in the early '90s under the Chairmanship of Colin Hutton.

Quote: Mrs Barista "There is not one shred of evidence that Rovers would sell out a 14,000 stadium on a regular basis. If anything the fact you are unable to sell out what you have now is a solid reason for commercial investors not to put any money in.'"

We have sold covered 100% terracing 100% of the SL season which is a cast-iron reason for commercial investors to put money in so have a day from talking out of your @rse.

Quote: Mrs Barista "It's silly to predict the elasticity of demand in such aggressive terms when your average gate has gone down this year despite a regular season 4th place. In the current environment it's hardly an attractive investment.'"

IIRC our average attendance went up around 300 this season. Besides, we can't account for shocking away followings like 600 from across the river.

Quote: Mrs Barista "How do you know what profits FC have made this season - the accounts aren't due to be filed until next August?'"

Pedantic drivel.

Quote: Mrs Barista "Plus Rovers have made losses 5 years on the bounce, and not spent the full cap in the other 4, so that's a bit of a limp rationale.'"

Not in the slightest as the first two seasons we did not receive a slice of the SL Sky money and then there were multiple investments that needed to be made in "game-day facilities" as the club arrived in SL, not to mention some quality ink cartidges to put in the club's pen for Paul Cooke sign his contract.

Quote: Mrs Barista "You've paid the full cap for the first time, done very well in the league and it's made no difference to getting people through the gate'"

In terms of covered terracing you can not improve on it being 100% full, 100% of the time hence the immediate need for better facilities.

Quote: Mrs Barista "and you aren't well-organised enough in terms of retail opportunities to maximise revenue.'"

That is an on-going process.

Quote: Mrs Barista "Our board have their faults, but the fact is that with our resilient attendances in the region of 13,500 and excellent merchandising and sponsorship arrangements, they've bucked the trend and reduced debt significantly over the last 5 years, albeit helped by 3 major final appearances. Criticise the recruitment and admin if you like, but to suggest the board's financial delivery is down to good luck when everyone else bar Leeds is in the financial mire, is a bit soft.'"

Not in at all as your board has created the club with a "silver spoon".

At the end of the day, facilities will improve at Craven Park whether you like it or not, and we will continue to humiliate you whether you like it or not... c020.gif

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Quote: TKOAH "Remind me again who went to the RFL first, therefore they made the money available to all clubs? :wink: :D [/quote:pcftkvui] [quote="Stan Butler":pcftkvui]And the next one to be TKO(H)'d....... :lol:[/quote:pcftkvui] [quote="Rufus Robin":pcftkvui]we share the city with an admittedly bigger club[/quote:pcftkvui] [b:pcftkvui]All Derby matches: Played 214; Hull won 106; Rovers won 98; Draw 10[/b:pcftkvui]:d7dc4b20b2c2dd7b76ac6eac29d5604e_29236.jpeg



Quote: Gavin Miller - Legend "Dont know you remind us.'"

Sorry, the guy that states everyone is losing £500k in the national press must be right. icon_lol.gif

Did he forget about Leeds and Hull FC making a profit and also Bradford making only a small loss?

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Quote: TKOAH "Sorry, the guy that states everyone is losing £500k in the national press must be right.
Who to believe.
Neil Hudgell or TKOAH.

MMM decisions decisions icon_lol.gif icon_lol.gif icon_lol.gif

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Quote: Gavin Miller - Legend "Who to believe.
Neil Hudgell or TKOAH.

MMM decisions decisions
It's safe to say you'd be better believing TKOAH! icon_wink.gif icon_biggrin.gif

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111 posts in 8 pages 
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Subscribe | Moderators: Admin, R.B.A , Anakin Skywalker , Mild Rover
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Subscribe | Moderators: Admin, R.B.A , Anakin Skywalker , Mild Rover



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