FORUMS > Hull KR > Should the OK Bulls be allowed to stay in SL |
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67446_1336737201.png [b:mygo02ha]And the Geek shall inherit the Earth![/b:mygo02ha]:d7dc4b20b2c2dd7b76ac6eac29d5604e_67446.png |
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| Even with the off field activity, the Bull's on field ability is not really in question (apart from the big blip against our bar-coded brothers). Their core set of fans is also larger than a team outside of SL. On that basis, they are deserve to stay because they are well supported and competative.
However, having breached the franchise agreement by calling in the administrators, it is up to the remaining clubs to vote. They have previously voted and given their unanimous support to the club last month. Therefore Bradford will be playing in SL next year.
The only real question is therefore the franchise system. But can the franchise system be judged on one club hiding the true facts of it's financial situation during the last round of bids (Bradford), a smaller club who was honest about their debts but granted a franchise (Wakefield) and a club that was always doomed to failure in SL (Celtic)?
If anything, the franchise system may need to be made even more stringent, or the tests amended to ensure true financial details are provided rather than abandon the whole system.
But even though I've stated all that, there must be a way to make it more viable for clubs outside SL to aspire to get into SL. I know how I felt before promotion, wondering if and when we would ever get into SL and that was before the franchise system.
Anyway, Bradford will stay in SL, but changes either to, or away from the franchise system will no doubt be applied.
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52839_1329321876.gif [b:9n4araj5]Michelangelo, [i:9n4araj5]1475-1564.[/i:9n4araj5][/b:9n4araj5]
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| Their support base goes hand in hand with the fact that they pay pittance for their passes.
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30596_1286642206.jpg If there is no struggle, there is no progress. Those who profess to favor freedom, and yet depreciate agitation, are men who want crops without plowing up the ground. They want rain without thunder and lightning. They want the ocean without the awful roar of its many waters. This struggle may be a moral one; or it may be a physical one; or it may be both moral and physical; but it must be a struggle.
Frederick Douglas:d7dc4b20b2c2dd7b76ac6eac29d5604e_30596.jpg |
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| Sounding like a Chinese meal might encourage some Chinese people to boost their crowds.
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2940_1318161088.gif :d7dc4b20b2c2dd7b76ac6eac29d5604e_2940.gif |
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| Quote: Kosh "I wasn't suggesting it as an excuse for why they should stay in SL, just pointing out that the sports club is legally distinct from the company that owned and ran it. And OKB haven't just taken over the name - they bought the sports club in it's entirety. The history, honours, etc. belong to the sports club and not whichever company happens to own them.
Your point about who is the licence holder is a good one and central to the issue. Sadly I don't think anyone knows for sure. If you look at the criteria supposedly used to judge a licence application they contain things that refer to both the owning company and the sports club.
Right from the start the only outcome I've wanted from this has been for the Bulls to survive and licensing to retain some credibility. If that means dropping them to the Championship then so be it. The issue then would be who to replace them with, because it's far from obvious.'"
So that includes it's debts, I take it?
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17123_1311448581.jpg If you only knew the POWER of the dark side.:d7dc4b20b2c2dd7b76ac6eac29d5604e_17123.jpg |
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| Quote: Gallanteer "Even with the off field activity, the Bull's on field ability is not really in question (apart from the big blip against our bar-coded brothers). Their core set of fans is also larger than a team outside of SL. On that basis, they are deserve to stay because they are well supported and competative.
However, having breached the franchise agreement by calling in the administrators, it is up to the remaining clubs to vote. They have previously voted and given their unanimous support to the club last month. Therefore Bradford will be playing in SL next year.
The only real question is therefore the franchise system. But can the franchise system be judged on one club hiding the true facts of it's financial situation during the last round of bids (Bradford), a smaller club who was honest about their debts but granted a franchise (Wakefield) and a club that was always doomed to failure in SL (Celtic)?
If anything, the franchise system may need to be made even more stringent, or the tests amended to ensure true financial details are provided rather than abandon the whole system.
But even though I've stated all that, there must be a way to make it more viable for clubs outside SL to aspire to get into SL. I know how I felt before promotion, wondering if and when we would ever get into SL and that was before the franchise system.
Anyway, Bradford will stay in SL, but changes either to, or away from the franchise system will no doubt be applied.'" I think your memory over Wakey/Crusaders is a little cloudy as the only reason IMHO that Wakey kept their licence was because Crusaders went under.
Again IMHO if crusaders had stuck around then the Wakey admin would have seen them spin into the Championship.
Unless you meant this in which case my appologies.
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38546.gif What immortal hand or eye,
Dare frame thy fearful symmetry?:38546.gif |
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| The Bulls presence in SL makes a mockery of the whole Licencing process.
They have to go at the end of this year, no matter who they are.
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438_1551258406.jpg "If you start listening to the fans it won't be long before you're sitting with them," - Wayne Bennett.:d7dc4b20b2c2dd7b76ac6eac29d5604e_438.jpg |
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| P&R is coming back. Not sure if that will have an element of licensing or not tho.
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33809_1522680904.png 'Thus I am tormented by my curiosity and humbled by my ignorance.' from History of an Old Bramin, The New York Mirror (A Weekly Journal Devoted to Literature and the Fine Arts), February 16th 1833.:d7dc4b20b2c2dd7b76ac6eac29d5604e_33809.png |
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| Quote: Bullseye "P&R is coming back. Not sure if that will have an element of licensing or not tho.'"
P&R with a minimum stadium requirement (set realistically) would be a reasonable, simple and transparent option.
If they're scared of Leeds or Wigan going down during an injury-ravaged transitional year, or, more generously, they want to give the promoted team a chance to develop, it could be over a 3-year cycle.
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17123_1311448581.jpg If you only knew the POWER of the dark side.:d7dc4b20b2c2dd7b76ac6eac29d5604e_17123.jpg |
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| Quote: Mild Rover "P&R with a minimum stadium requirement (set realistically) would be a reasonable, simple and transparent option.
If they're scared of Leeds or Wigan going down during an injury-ravaged transitional year, or, more generously, they want to give the promoted team a chance to develop, it could be over a 3-year cycle.'" Or any team that comes up has a minimum of 2 years before they can get relegated again.
I know that could well mean that the 2/3 from bottom side can go but that is the only way if they want to do it yearly.
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33809_1522680904.png 'Thus I am tormented by my curiosity and humbled by my ignorance.' from History of an Old Bramin, The New York Mirror (A Weekly Journal Devoted to Literature and the Fine Arts), February 16th 1833.:d7dc4b20b2c2dd7b76ac6eac29d5604e_33809.png |
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| I don't want to make it any harder than it is for the RFL to do the right thing, but I can't help but mentally drafting the press release...
'While licensing appeared to offer a sensible method for managing movement of clubs between our elite competition and the Championship, we found in practice that the wrong clubs kept going bust.'
Just a joke - there is no shame in admitting to an honest error.
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30596_1286642206.jpg If there is no struggle, there is no progress. Those who profess to favor freedom, and yet depreciate agitation, are men who want crops without plowing up the ground. They want rain without thunder and lightning. They want the ocean without the awful roar of its many waters. This struggle may be a moral one; or it may be a physical one; or it may be both moral and physical; but it must be a struggle.
Frederick Douglas:d7dc4b20b2c2dd7b76ac6eac29d5604e_30596.jpg |
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| Quote: Anakin Skywalker "Or any team that comes up has a minimum of 2 years before they can get relegated again.
I know that could well mean that the 2/3 from bottom side can go but that is the only way if they want to do it yearly.'"
Yes. I think something like that would be required, the gap between full and part time is to far to bridge, particulalry when you only have from October to February to sort it out.
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33809_1522680904.png 'Thus I am tormented by my curiosity and humbled by my ignorance.' from History of an Old Bramin, The New York Mirror (A Weekly Journal Devoted to Literature and the Fine Arts), February 16th 1833.:d7dc4b20b2c2dd7b76ac6eac29d5604e_33809.png |
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| Quote: Anakin Skywalker " ...if they want to do it yearly.'"
Then they have to accept that Wigan or Saints or Leeds could go down. Might make them think about doing something to close the gap, I guess.
With a 3 year cycle you have to accept that a SL team could reach the play-offs (potentially even the grand final) and be relegated. Or a Championship team might go up never having finished better than 4th during the 3 years.
There's no perfect solution, every choice is a sacrifice.
The failure of licensing wasn't that it was imperfect, it was that it wouldn't admit it was. Eventually it was faced with a question it couldn't duck and its unacknowledged flaws were exposed.
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33809_1522680904.png 'Thus I am tormented by my curiosity and humbled by my ignorance.' from History of an Old Bramin, The New York Mirror (A Weekly Journal Devoted to Literature and the Fine Arts), February 16th 1833.:d7dc4b20b2c2dd7b76ac6eac29d5604e_33809.png |
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| It has been drawn to my attention that Wakefield was also a newco, albeit one that voluntarily chose to honour some of the oldco's debt. Thus, it'd be inconsistent to deny Bradford a SL place.
I stand by my criticisms of licensing - though if we did 'go pop', it would at least offer the consolation of fcimp's reaction to it costing us only 4 or 6 SL points.
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47557_1332937611.jpg :d7dc4b20b2c2dd7b76ac6eac29d5604e_47557.jpg |
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| Quote: Mild Rover "It has been drawn to my attention that Wakefield was also a newco, albeit one that voluntarily chose to honour some of the oldco's debt. Thus, it'd be inconsistent to deny Bradford a SL place.
I stand by my criticisms of licensing - though if we did 'go pop', it would at least offer the consolation of fcimp's reaction to it costing us only 4 or 6 SL points.'"
That is one of the reason's they stayed in SL. If OK bulls decide to worm out of paying most of the debt then they should be dropped to the championship/1 to make it consistent. IMHO I think that they should go no matter what. This would stop any other club using Admin to get out of the overspending hole they've dug for themselves and would send a clear message to the rest of SL that the RFL will not tolerate anyone bringing the game into disrepute.
However we are talking about the RFL and we all know they don't have the balls to enforce anything.
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33809_1522680904.png 'Thus I am tormented by my curiosity and humbled by my ignorance.' from History of an Old Bramin, The New York Mirror (A Weekly Journal Devoted to Literature and the Fine Arts), February 16th 1833.:d7dc4b20b2c2dd7b76ac6eac29d5604e_33809.png |
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| Quote: LifeLongHKRFan "That is one of the reason's they stayed in SL. If OK bulls decide to worm out of paying most of the debt then they should be dropped to the championship/1 to make it consistent. IMHO I think that they should go no matter what. This would stop any other club using Admin to get out of the overspending hole they've dug for themselves and would send a clear message to the rest of SL that the RFL will not tolerate anyone bringing the game into disrepute.
However we are talking about the RFL and we all know they don't have the balls to enforce anything.'"
The distinction is small, and really, in principle, non-existant. If Wakefield weren't chucked out for failing to reach agreement with creditors, it'd be unfair to treat Bradford differently.
The system needs changing before the RFL can start thinking about taking any sort of a stand. And it does need changing.
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