FORUMS FORUMS



  
FORUMS > Hull KR > Overseas Numbers.
262 posts in 18 pages 
<<   PREV  NEXT   >>
Subscribe | Moderators: Admin, R.B.A , Anakin Skywalker , Mild Rover
RankPostsTeam
Player Coach11924
JoinedServiceReputation
Jan 200718 years
OnlineLast PostLast Page
Nov 2024Aug 2024LINK
Milestone Posts
0
100
Milestone Years
0510 1520 2530
Location
Signature
TO BE FIXED



Quote: SmokeyTA "Neither Scott Murrell, I’anson weren’t given a shot because of overseas players, neither could get in to the side and neither got a shot because they weren’t the best young british player at the club. You cant criticise a club for having more young british players than they can accommodate and use it as a defence of a club which doesn’t have enough.'"


Come on chief, I know you're a bit on the autistic spectrum when it comes to this issue but even you must have been able to see my post was some what tongue in cheek.

RankPostsTeam
Player Coach8742
JoinedServiceReputation
Sep 200519 years
OnlineLast PostLast Page
Nov 2024Oct 2024LINK
Milestone Posts
0
100
Milestone Years
0510 1520 2530
Location
Signature
TO BE FIXED



Quote: SmokeyTA "Maybe, maybe not. But a lot is expected from you at elite level including youth development, if you cant do both then you don’t deserve a spot at the top table

'"


Thankfully, the Franchising committee see things differently to your good self, hence the upgraded licence for the next period.

RankPostsTeam
Moderator12647
JoinedServiceReputation
Jun 200717 years
OnlineLast PostLast Page
Nov 2024Nov 2024LINK
Milestone Posts
0
100
Milestone Years
0510 1520 2530
Location
Signature
TO BE FIXED

Moderator


Quote: SmokeyTA "Maybe, maybe not. But a lot is expected from you at elite level including youth development, if you cant do both then you don’t deserve a spot at the top table'"


But we weren't at the elite level. You can't judge second tier clubs by SL standards - the financial gap is massive. Widnes won the Northern Rail Cup in 2009 and switched to development - that wasn't an option for Rovers in 2006. We needed promotion. My current avatar honours the counter argument though.

Soory to burst your bubble cockle but the difference between Widnes and Rovers is that when we "Earned" promotion we had from October to February to assemble a team that could stave of relegation and guarantee superleague survival. Widnes have been handed promotion and have had from July to February to assemble a team that will not get relegated for three seasons, not exactly the same scenario is it. Just an observation of course o font of all things HKR. h025.gif

RankPostsTeam
International Star1326No
Team
Selected
JoinedServiceReputation
Aug 201113 years
OnlineLast PostLast Page
Jun 2017Jun 2017LINK
Milestone Posts
0
100
Milestone Years
0510 1520 2530
Location
Signature
TO BE FIXED



I don't have any qualms over Rovers using the overseas rules to the limit, in fact I believe it has been a shrewd policy by Rovers and will continue to be so under Sandercock’s management, albeit with a shift in emphasis on bringing over younger and less established NRL players. I suggest this is based on two reasons: Firstly, at this point in time it is cost/benefit effective to invest in younger and less established overseas players, and secondly, Rovers youth development systems are only just beginning to pay dividends.
The reason why it is cost/benefit effective to invest in younger and less established overseas players isn’t rocket science. For starters, they are a cheaper option than their counterparts in SL, who are currently demanding inflated contract terms. For me, a more practical reason (coupled with them being cheaper options) is how they come packaged and labelled as NRL trained players.

The emphasis on NRL trained players should not be overlooked, because these players have rec’d quality coaching (many from a very young age), and with higher standards than those in SL; the NRL system instils an ideology of aspiring to be the ‘best of the best’ from a young age – this applies across other sports as well in Oz and was explained to me (in his usual graphic way by Newts) a few years ago. It’s a mentality Antipodeans seem to grow up with. I’m not saying this isn’t the case over here, but when you compare SL with NRL home grown strength and depth, many of the discarded NRL trained players are on a par or better than we have at the moment coming through SL youth systems.
Undoubtedly, this is the strength (and depth) of the NRL; its youth development system is to be aspired to, and the reason why the Aussies have a perpetual conveyor belt of highly rated, well prepared players coming through.

In many respects the knock-on effect of its success can be ‘exploited’ (for want of a better term) because it has created a market (untapped in my opinion) which Rovers are turning to. This market has a (wealth) of ‘NRL trained’ players (circa 19-25) languishing in reserve grade, feeder clubs and in other lower competitions. It makes sense to tap into this pool of talent, and is cost/effective because the club is signing players that have been trained by NRL clubs, albeit discarded by the depth and strength of quality it produces. In other words, Rovers have been spared the expense of investing in these players development.

I know the arguments about how overseas players restrict home grown growth; the pensioner gaffs; they are NRL rejects; and are seen by some pundits as being why SL remains behind the NRL. Yes, in some cases each of these claims has substance; however, the SL competition has improved no ends due to the overseas influence, and would be a far lesser product without their contribution. Take a look at Rovers emerging youth and the established British players who are quick to point out the influence of Rovers overseas players. It’s this ‘invisible’ effect which needs to be factored into the debate. I also think there has been a change in mindset by SL clubs to move away from pinning short term success on marquee signings.

On Rovers continued heavy reliance on overseas players; in many respects Hudge spelled it out clearly when he stated at the FF last month, recruitment of home grown players is an expensive option (inflated contract demands etc.,), and so is investment in developing players through youth systems – the gamble factor of producing a return of 0-5 players per annum out of 30-40 youngsters. He quoted how Leeds and Saints invest around half a million per annum in youth development.
As far as I know, Rovers touched on less than half that amount. That is a massive difference and gulf to overcome in financial terms alone, and Rovers have struggled with it since day one (and for the most part, little return to show for it). This point has been a major factor in Rovers reliance on overseas players since entering SL, but the investment in the present crop of reserve grade players could well see Rovers reducing the overseas contingent in the future, although I am in favour of finding a blend. For me, I don't care if Sandercock fills up the overseas lists up with players discarded by the NRL, as long as they bring added value to the squad and the developing youth systems.
In the meantime, we cannot escape the fact the pool of 'discarded' NRL trained players is surprisingly a cheaper option, and I believe will become an option other SL clubs will take up (if not already) over the next few years. Sandercock will know this and he will use his knowledge of the NRL youth development systems to sift out potential recruitment targets for Rovers overseas lists in the future.

RankPostsTeam
International Star7194
JoinedServiceReputation
Aug 201113 years
OnlineLast PostLast Page
Jul 2019Jul 2019LINK
Milestone Posts
0
100
Milestone Years
0510 1520 2530
Location
Signature
TO BE FIXED



people seem to forget hull had the cherrypick of all youngsters for over a decade with us not having reserves or academy for part of that time if we did produce any players they were snapped up striaght away ie jon wilkin even paul fletcher had a lot of chances to go play at a higher level but stayed loyal im quite happy with the way our youth is coming through at the moment and no matter what happens the aussies will still be hammering us in 20 years time so what does it matter

RankPostsTeam
Player Coach14302No
Team
Selected
JoinedServiceReputation
Aug 200519 years
OnlineLast PostLast Page
Sep 2018Sep 2015LINK
Milestone Posts
0
100
Milestone Years
0510 1520 2530
Location
Signature
TO BE FIXED



Quote: SmokeyTA "Yes, ‘thankfully’ the RFL don’t seem too bothered about clubs failing in their responsibilities to youth development and have allowed HKR to rely on overseas players and put out a squad mostly consisting of NRL reserve graders so they can finish mid-table. Thank god for that.'"
11 out of 25+
Maths and/or english not your strong point then Smokey?

RankPostsTeam
Moderator12647
JoinedServiceReputation
Jun 200717 years
OnlineLast PostLast Page
Nov 2024Nov 2024LINK
Milestone Posts
0
100
Milestone Years
0510 1520 2530
Location
Signature
TO BE FIXED

Moderator


Quote: Paul T - HKR "He quoted how Leeds and Saints invest around half a million per annum in youth development.
As far as I know, Rovers touched on less than half that amount. '"


Interesting. I'd heard '6-figure sum' for Rovers, consistent with that.
What i'd be curious about is what would happen if every body started spending half a million. Would the same talent just be spread around the league (ie Leeds and Saints investment is in the acquisition more than the development of players) or would every club have the likes of Jones-Bishop, Foster, Lomax and Gaskell coming through the ranks year after year.


Quote: Paul T - HKR "11 out of 25+
Maths and/or english not your strong point then Smokey?'"


Tbf, and much as it pains me to almost take his side icon_wink.gif , I guess he means matchday squad. Or 'team' to you and me icon_smile.gif

RankPostsTeam
Player Coach22777
JoinedServiceReputation
May 200619 years
OnlineLast PostLast Page
Jun 2020Feb 2018LINK
Milestone Posts
0
100
Milestone Years
0510 1520 2530
Location
Signature
TO BE FIXED



Quote: Anakin Skywalker "11 out of 25+
Maths and/or english not your strong point then Smokey?'"

HKR planning on putting out a 25 man matchday squad? Its an interesting approach to covering up for their mediocrity and im not sure they will get away with it.

11 out of 17?

Maths and/or english not your strong point then?

RankPostsTeam
Player Coach11924
JoinedServiceReputation
Jan 200718 years
OnlineLast PostLast Page
Nov 2024Aug 2024LINK
Milestone Posts
0
100
Milestone Years
0510 1520 2530
Location
Signature
TO BE FIXED



I'm going to stop using The Gregorian calender to mark the passing of the years, a more accurate measure is to wait for SmokeyTA to turn up on an annual basis to comment on our recruitment.

RankPostsTeam
Player Coach22777
JoinedServiceReputation
May 200619 years
OnlineLast PostLast Page
Jun 2020Feb 2018LINK
Milestone Posts
0
100
Milestone Years
0510 1520 2530
Location
Signature
TO BE FIXED



Quote: Mild Rover "Aye. I think we're doing okay and are pretty much on schedule regarding developing players at Hull KR. Our 'failure' as you put it is a product of your unrealistic and rather contrived expectations and assessments. IMO. '"


Would you really class two player coming through the HKR system to HKR regular in 5 years on schedule? If so its the least ambitious schedule possible. Hell I would have expected a better return from Crusaders than that.
Quote: Mild Rover "Yep. Why is this a surprise to anyone?
Better regulation is needed, not appeals to conscience. We're hardly the only club to pursue our own self-interest. A lot might be expected of a club at the elite level - I wouldn't have put following the supposed spirit of the rules or a sense of disinterested self-denial near the top of the list. Again... call me cynical.'"
I doubt you would be so relaxed about it if a club like Hull FC for instance had found a loophole in the Salary Cap which allowed them to spend huge amounts of extra money which whilst not explicitly against the rules was totally against the reasons the SC existed or they encouraged their players to challenge the legality of the SC in an effort to allow them to spend more. Which in principle would be the same as what HKR and other clubs are doing in regards to the quota.

RankPostsTeam
Player Coach14302No
Team
Selected
JoinedServiceReputation
Aug 200519 years
OnlineLast PostLast Page
Sep 2018Sep 2015LINK
Milestone Posts
0
100
Milestone Years
0510 1520 2530
Location
Signature
TO BE FIXED



Quote: SmokeyTA "HKR planning on putting out a 25 man matchday squad? Its an interesting approach to covering up for their mediocrity and im not sure they will get away with it.

11 out of 17?

Maths and/or english not your strong point then?'"
You were the one who failed to stipulate matchday or full squad.
Maybe you can give that a shot next time.

262 posts in 18 pages 
<<   PREV  NEXT   >>
Subscribe | Moderators: Admin, R.B.A , Anakin Skywalker , Mild Rover
262 posts in 18 pages 
<<   PREV  NEXT   >>
Subscribe | Moderators: Admin, R.B.A , Anakin Skywalker , Mild Rover



All views expressed are those of the author and not necessarily those of the RLFANS.COM or its subsites.

Whilst every effort is made to ensure that news stories, articles and images are correct, we cannot be held responsible for errors. However, if you feel any material on this website is copyrighted or incorrect in any way please contact us using the link at the top of the page so we can remove it or negotiate copyright permission.

RLFANS.COM, the owners of this website, is not responsible for the content of its sub-sites or posts, please email the author of this sub-site or post if you feel you find an article offensive or of a choice nature that you disagree with.

Copyright 1999 - 2024 RLFANS.COM

You must be 18+ to gamble, for more information and for help with gambling issues see https://www.begambleaware.org/.



Please Support RLFANS.COM


9.37353515625:10
RLFANS Recent Posts
FORUM
LAST
POST
TOPIC
POSTER
POSTS
Recent
Film game
karetaker
5766
Recent
Getting a new side to gel
Wigan Bull
2
Recent
New Kit
Cokey
70
Recent
Fixtures
Hockley Bron
12
Recent
Fixtures 2025
Wigan Bull
10
FORUM
LAST
VIEW
TOPIC
POSTER
POSTS
16s
Transfer Talk V5
Seth
517
21s
Rumours and signings v9
Mark_P1973
28902
27s
Film game
karetaker
5766
37s
Pre Season - 2025
Hullrealist
191
1m
BORED The Band Name Game
Boss Hog
63268
1m
Salford
Smiffy27
59
1m
DoR - New Coach - Investor & Adam - New signings
Theeaststand
4048
1m
Salary Cap Changes Blocked - 11 votes to 1
NickyKiss
9
1m
Spirit of the Rhinos
chapylad
6
1m
Opening Championship and League One Fixtures for 2025 Released
RLFANS News
1
FORUM
NEW
TOPICS
TOPIC
POSTER
POSTS
TODAY
Shirt reveal coming soon
Khlav Kalash
2
TODAY
Opening Championship and League One Fixtures for 2025 Released
RLFANS News
1
TODAY
Getting a new side to gel
Wigan Bull
2
TODAY
Fixtures
Hockley Bron
12
TODAY
Writers required
H.G.S.A
1
TODAY
2025 Fixtures
Jemmo
1
NEWS ITEMS
VIEWS
POSTSONLINEREGISTRATIONSRECORD
19.65M 1,137 ↓-5280,15614,103
LOGIN HERE
or REGISTER for more features!.

When you register you get access to the live match scores, live match chat and you can post in the discussions on the forums.
RLFANS Match Centre
 Thu 13th Feb 2025
     Mens Super League XXX-R1
20:00
Wigan
v
Leigh
 Fri 14th Feb 2025
     Mens Super League XXX-R1
20:00
Hull KR
v
Castleford
20:00
Catalans
v
Hull FC
 Sat 15th Feb 2025
     Mens Super League XXX-R1
15:00
Leeds
v
Wakefield
17:30
St.Helens
v
Salford
       Championship 2025-R1
18:00
Toulouse
v
Widnes
 Sun 16th Feb 2025
     Mens Super League XXX-R1
15:00
Huddersfield
v
Warrington
       Championship 2025-R1
15:00
Bradford
v
LondonB
15:00
Featherstone
v
Doncaster
15:00
Oldham
v
York
15:00
Sheffield
v
Halifax
15:00
Barrow
v
Hunslet
 Thu 20th Feb 2025
     Mens Super League XXX-R2
20:00
Wakefield
v
Hull KR
 Fri 21st Feb 2025
     Mens Super League XXX-R2
20:00
Warrington
v
Catalans
20:00
Hull FC
v
Wigan
 Sat 22nd Feb 2025
     Mens Super League XXX-R2
15:00
Salford
v
Leeds
20:00
Castleford
v
St.Helens
 Sun 23rd Feb 2025
     Mens Super League XXX-R2
14:30
Leigh
v
Huddersfield
       League One 2025-R1
15:00
Cornwall
v
Workington
15:00
Dewsbury
v
Crusaders
ALL SCORES PROVIDED BY RLFANS.COM (SETTINGS)
Matches on TV
Thu 13th Feb
SL
20:00
Wigan-Leigh
Fri 14th Feb
SL
20:00
Hull KR-Castleford
SL
20:00
Catalans-Hull FC
Sat 15th Feb
SL
15:00
Leeds-Wakefield
SL
17:30
St.Helens-Salford
Sun 16th Feb
SL
15:00
Huddersfield-Warrington
Thu 20th Feb
SL
20:00
Wakefield-Hull KR
Fri 21st Feb
SL
20:00
Warrington-Catalans
SL
20:00
Hull FC-Wigan
Sat 22nd Feb
SL
15:00
Salford-Leeds
SL
20:00
Castleford-St.Helens
Sun 23rd Feb
SL
14:30
Leigh-Huddersfield
Thu 6th Mar
SL
20:00
Hull FC-Leigh
Fri 7th Mar
SL
20:00
Castleford-Salford
SL
20:00
St.Helens-Hull KR
Sat 8th Mar
SL
17:30
Catalans-Leeds
Sun 9th Mar
SL
17:30
Warrington-Wakefield
SL
17:30
Wigan-Huddersfield
Thu 20th Mar
SL
20:00
Salford-Huddersfield
Fri 21st Mar
SL
20:00
St.Helens-Warrington
This is an inplay table and live positions can change.
Mens Betfred Super League XXVIII ROUND : 1
 PLDFADIFFPTS
Wigan 29 768 338 430 48
Hull KR 29 731 344 387 44
Warrington 29 769 351 418 42
Leigh 29 580 442 138 33
Salford 28 556 561 -5 32
St.Helens 28 618 411 207 30
 
Catalans 27 475 427 48 30
Leeds 27 530 488 42 28
Huddersfield 27 468 658 -190 20
Castleford 27 425 735 -310 15
Hull FC 27 328 894 -566 6
LondonB 27 317 916 -599 6
This is an inplay table and live positions can change.
Betfred Championship 2024 ROUND : 1
 PLDFADIFFPTS
Wakefield 27 1032 275 757 52
Toulouse 26 765 388 377 37
Bradford 28 723 420 303 36
York 29 695 501 194 32
Widnes 27 561 502 59 29
Featherstone 27 634 525 109 28
 
Sheffield 26 626 526 100 28
Doncaster 26 498 619 -121 25
Halifax 26 509 650 -141 22
Batley 26 422 591 -169 22
Swinton 28 484 676 -192 20
Barrow 25 442 720 -278 19
Whitehaven 25 437 826 -389 18
Dewsbury 27 348 879 -531 4
Hunslet 1 6 10 -4 0
RLFANS Recent Posts
FORUM
LAST
POST
TOPIC
POSTER
POSTS
Recent
Film game
karetaker
5766
Recent
Getting a new side to gel
Wigan Bull
2
Recent
New Kit
Cokey
70
Recent
Fixtures
Hockley Bron
12
Recent
Fixtures 2025
Wigan Bull
10
FORUM
LAST
VIEW
TOPIC
POSTER
POSTS
16s
Transfer Talk V5
Seth
517
21s
Rumours and signings v9
Mark_P1973
28902
27s
Film game
karetaker
5766
37s
Pre Season - 2025
Hullrealist
191
1m
BORED The Band Name Game
Boss Hog
63268
1m
Salford
Smiffy27
59
1m
DoR - New Coach - Investor & Adam - New signings
Theeaststand
4048
1m
Salary Cap Changes Blocked - 11 votes to 1
NickyKiss
9
1m
Spirit of the Rhinos
chapylad
6
1m
Opening Championship and League One Fixtures for 2025 Released
RLFANS News
1
FORUM
NEW
TOPICS
TOPIC
POSTER
POSTS
TODAY
Shirt reveal coming soon
Khlav Kalash
2
TODAY
Opening Championship and League One Fixtures for 2025 Released
RLFANS News
1
TODAY
Getting a new side to gel
Wigan Bull
2
TODAY
Fixtures
Hockley Bron
12
TODAY
Writers required
H.G.S.A
1
TODAY
2025 Fixtures
Jemmo
1
NEWS ITEMS
VIEWS


Visit the RLFANS.COM SHOP
for more merchandise!