FORUMS > Hull KR > Overseas Numbers. |
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| Quote: SmokeyTA "Neither Scott Murrell, I’anson weren’t given a shot because of overseas players, neither could get in to the side and neither got a shot because they weren’t the best young british player at the club. You cant criticise a club for having more young british players than they can accommodate and use it as a defence of a club which doesn’t have enough.'"
Come on chief, I know you're a bit on the autistic spectrum when it comes to this issue but even you must have been able to see my post was some what tongue in cheek.
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| Quote: SmokeyTA "Maybe, maybe not. But a lot is expected from you at elite level including youth development, if you cant do both then you don’t deserve a spot at the top table
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Thankfully, the Franchising committee see things differently to your good self, hence the upgraded licence for the next period.
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| Quote: SmokeyTA "Maybe, maybe not. But a lot is expected from you at elite level including youth development, if you cant do both then you don’t deserve a spot at the top table'"
But we weren't at the elite level. You can't judge second tier clubs by SL standards - the financial gap is massive. Widnes won the Northern Rail Cup in 2009 and switched to development - that wasn't an option for Rovers in 2006. We needed promotion. My current avatar honours the counter argument though.
Soory to burst your bubble cockle but the difference between Widnes and Rovers is that when we "Earned" promotion we had from October to February to assemble a team that could stave of relegation and guarantee superleague survival. Widnes have been handed promotion and have had from July to February to assemble a team that will not get relegated for three seasons, not exactly the same scenario is it. Just an observation of course o font of all things HKR.
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International Star | 1326 | No Team Selected |
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Aug 2011 | 13 years | |
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| I don't have any qualms over Rovers using the overseas rules to the limit, in fact I believe it has been a shrewd policy by Rovers and will continue to be so under Sandercock’s management, albeit with a shift in emphasis on bringing over younger and less established NRL players. I suggest this is based on two reasons: Firstly, at this point in time it is cost/benefit effective to invest in younger and less established overseas players, and secondly, Rovers youth development systems are only just beginning to pay dividends.
The reason why it is cost/benefit effective to invest in younger and less established overseas players isn’t rocket science. For starters, they are a cheaper option than their counterparts in SL, who are currently demanding inflated contract terms. For me, a more practical reason (coupled with them being cheaper options) is how they come packaged and labelled as NRL trained players.
The emphasis on NRL trained players should not be overlooked, because these players have rec’d quality coaching (many from a very young age), and with higher standards than those in SL; the NRL system instils an ideology of aspiring to be the ‘best of the best’ from a young age – this applies across other sports as well in Oz and was explained to me (in his usual graphic way by Newts) a few years ago. It’s a mentality Antipodeans seem to grow up with. I’m not saying this isn’t the case over here, but when you compare SL with NRL home grown strength and depth, many of the discarded NRL trained players are on a par or better than we have at the moment coming through SL youth systems.
Undoubtedly, this is the strength (and depth) of the NRL; its youth development system is to be aspired to, and the reason why the Aussies have a perpetual conveyor belt of highly rated, well prepared players coming through.
In many respects the knock-on effect of its success can be ‘exploited’ (for want of a better term) because it has created a market (untapped in my opinion) which Rovers are turning to. This market has a (wealth) of ‘NRL trained’ players (circa 19-25) languishing in reserve grade, feeder clubs and in other lower competitions. It makes sense to tap into this pool of talent, and is cost/effective because the club is signing players that have been trained by NRL clubs, albeit discarded by the depth and strength of quality it produces. In other words, Rovers have been spared the expense of investing in these players development.
I know the arguments about how overseas players restrict home grown growth; the pensioner gaffs; they are NRL rejects; and are seen by some pundits as being why SL remains behind the NRL. Yes, in some cases each of these claims has substance; however, the SL competition has improved no ends due to the overseas influence, and would be a far lesser product without their contribution. Take a look at Rovers emerging youth and the established British players who are quick to point out the influence of Rovers overseas players. It’s this ‘invisible’ effect which needs to be factored into the debate. I also think there has been a change in mindset by SL clubs to move away from pinning short term success on marquee signings.
On Rovers continued heavy reliance on overseas players; in many respects Hudge spelled it out clearly when he stated at the FF last month, recruitment of home grown players is an expensive option (inflated contract demands etc.,), and so is investment in developing players through youth systems – the gamble factor of producing a return of 0-5 players per annum out of 30-40 youngsters. He quoted how Leeds and Saints invest around half a million per annum in youth development.
As far as I know, Rovers touched on less than half that amount. That is a massive difference and gulf to overcome in financial terms alone, and Rovers have struggled with it since day one (and for the most part, little return to show for it). This point has been a major factor in Rovers reliance on overseas players since entering SL, but the investment in the present crop of reserve grade players could well see Rovers reducing the overseas contingent in the future, although I am in favour of finding a blend. For me, I don't care if Sandercock fills up the overseas lists up with players discarded by the NRL, as long as they bring added value to the squad and the developing youth systems.
In the meantime, we cannot escape the fact the pool of 'discarded' NRL trained players is surprisingly a cheaper option, and I believe will become an option other SL clubs will take up (if not already) over the next few years. Sandercock will know this and he will use his knowledge of the NRL youth development systems to sift out potential recruitment targets for Rovers overseas lists in the future.
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International Star | 7194 | |
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| people seem to forget hull had the cherrypick of all youngsters for over a decade with us not having reserves or academy for part of that time if we did produce any players they were snapped up striaght away ie jon wilkin even paul fletcher had a lot of chances to go play at a higher level but stayed loyal im quite happy with the way our youth is coming through at the moment and no matter what happens the aussies will still be hammering us in 20 years time so what does it matter
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Player Coach | 14302 | No Team Selected |
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| Quote: SmokeyTA "Yes, ‘thankfully’ the RFL don’t seem too bothered about clubs failing in their responsibilities to youth development and have allowed HKR to rely on overseas players and put out a squad mostly consisting of NRL reserve graders so they can finish mid-table. Thank god for that.'" 11 out of 25+
Maths and/or english not your strong point then Smokey?
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| Quote: Paul T - HKR "He quoted how Leeds and Saints invest around half a million per annum in youth development.
As far as I know, Rovers touched on less than half that amount. '"
Interesting. I'd heard '6-figure sum' for Rovers, consistent with that.
What i'd be curious about is what would happen if every body started spending half a million. Would the same talent just be spread around the league (ie Leeds and Saints investment is in the acquisition more than the development of players) or would every club have the likes of Jones-Bishop, Foster, Lomax and Gaskell coming through the ranks year after year.
Quote: Paul T - HKR "11 out of 25+
Maths and/or english not your strong point then Smokey?'"
Tbf, and much as it pains me to almost take his side , I guess he means matchday squad. Or 'team' to you and me
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| Quote: Anakin Skywalker "11 out of 25+
Maths and/or english not your strong point then Smokey?'"
HKR planning on putting out a 25 man matchday squad? Its an interesting approach to covering up for their mediocrity and im not sure they will get away with it.
11 out of 17?
Maths and/or english not your strong point then?
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Player Coach | 11924 | |
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Jan 2007 | 18 years | |
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| I'm going to stop using The Gregorian calender to mark the passing of the years, a more accurate measure is to wait for SmokeyTA to turn up on an annual basis to comment on our recruitment.
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Rank | Posts | Team |
Player Coach | 22777 | |
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May 2006 | 19 years | |
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| Quote: Mild Rover "Aye. I think we're doing okay and are pretty much on schedule regarding developing players at Hull KR. Our 'failure' as you put it is a product of your unrealistic and rather contrived expectations and assessments. IMO. '"
Would you really class two player coming through the HKR system to HKR regular in 5 years on schedule? If so its the least ambitious schedule possible. Hell I would have expected a better return from Crusaders than that. Quote: Mild Rover "Yep. Why is this a surprise to anyone?
Better regulation is needed, not appeals to conscience. We're hardly the only club to pursue our own self-interest. A lot might be expected of a club at the elite level - I wouldn't have put following the supposed spirit of the rules or a sense of disinterested self-denial near the top of the list. Again... call me cynical.'" I doubt you would be so relaxed about it if a club like Hull FC for instance had found a loophole in the Salary Cap which allowed them to spend huge amounts of extra money which whilst not explicitly against the rules was totally against the reasons the SC existed or they encouraged their players to challenge the legality of the SC in an effort to allow them to spend more. Which in principle would be the same as what HKR and other clubs are doing in regards to the quota.
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Player Coach | 14302 | No Team Selected |
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Aug 2005 | 19 years | |
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| Quote: SmokeyTA "HKR planning on putting out a 25 man matchday squad? Its an interesting approach to covering up for their mediocrity and im not sure they will get away with it.
11 out of 17?
Maths and/or english not your strong point then?'" You were the one who failed to stipulate matchday or full squad.
Maybe you can give that a shot next time.
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