FORUMS > Hull KR > Overseas Numbers. |
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| Quote: dum-dum "Talk about moving the goal posts.'"
OK then, I will. Rovers get Cox and Taylor debuting this season and we get lots of posts (correctly) praising this along with Mild Rover's perennial refrain about "eventually the numbers will come down when <insert latest dispensation here> unwinds". Now that Rovers have ramped up overseas numbers again potentially to 11 of your starting 17, we're back to "Don't give a toss as long as Rovers are successful". Bit naughty really.
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| Quote: Old_Faithful_IAKW "When was the last time a team with a large amount of overseas players won the grand final?'"
Exactly, so whats the problem with us having so many? Jog on son.
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| Quote: Old_Faithful_IAKW "Yep because it's clear that there is a strong correlation between overseas players and suc.... oh nevermind.'"
Again, what the flying duck are you on about? You should have thought "Oh Nevermind" before actually pressing submit.
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| Quote: Mrs Barista "OK then, I will. Rovers get Cox and Taylor debuting this season and we get lots of posts (correctly) praising this along with Mild Rover's perennial refrain about "eventually the numbers will come down when <insert latest dispensation here> unwinds". Now that Rovers have ramped up overseas numbers again potentially to 11 of your starting 17, we're back to "Don't give a toss as long as Rovers are successful". Bit naughty really.
You a bit weird, you.
Your taking posts from one user, in this case Mild Rover, then contrasting them against posts I'm making and proclaiming that Rovers fans are changing their minds to suit situations, where in reality its totally different users with totally different views.
Keep looking.
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| So what's the ruling on the junior teams, How many 'older' lads can play? The squad seems quite big this year and all 30+ can't play in the first team.
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| Quote: dum-dum "You a bit weird, you.
Your taking posts from one user, in this case Mild Rover, then contrasting them against posts I'm making and proclaiming that Rovers fans are changing their minds to suit situations, where in reality its totally different users with totally different views.
Keep looking.'"
Not really, there have been a number of back-slapping threads about how great it is to be reducing overseas numbers with the emergence of Cox/Taylor (e.g. when Fisher went) and a few people, including the lovely duck sing about what Smokey TA, Rovers biggest critic in the overseas players debate, would be saying now. A few weeks later you're back to square one in terms of 11 overseas players, conveniently the reduction in overseas reliance previously lauded becomes an irrelevance. Maybe I do you a disservice if you've never been interested in reducing overseas numbers downwards from 11 and are consistent in that, but in general terms, there was applause (rightly) of more Hull players coming into the squad (from Hull, like Hodgson), but now we're back at 11, generally the opinion has conveniently swing back to stated ambivalence.
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| Quote: Mrs Barista "Not really, there have been a number of back-slapping threads about how great it is to be reducing overseas numbers with the emergence of Cox/Taylor (e.g. when Fisher went) and a few people, including the lovely duck sing about what Smokey TA, Rovers biggest critic in the overseas players debate, would be saying now. A few weeks later you're back to square one in terms of 11 overseas players, conveniently the reduction in overseas reliance previously lauded becomes an irrelevance. Maybe I do you a disservice if you've never been interested in reducing overseas numbers downwards from 11 and are consistent in that, but in general terms, there was applause (rightly) of more Hull players coming into the squad (from Hull, like Hodgson), but now we're back at 11, generally the opinion has conveniently swing back to stated ambivalence.'"
I'd love to agree with you and shut you up, but I don't like to be wrong and you don't shut up.
My view is, while the overseas numbers are up again (11 is incorrect, BTW), There is also lots (more than last year) of English and young lads in the squad. If anything I think the balance is probably lower, there's probably a higher percentage of English to overseas at Rovers now this year than last, whether they're selected to play or not is another matter for another day, who cares?
The Australian national team could (well, couldn't because of the pesky quota and salary cap) play as Rovers next season and win the Cup, the League leaders and the Grand final. I would absolutely love it.
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| Quote: dum-dum "I'd love to agree with you and shut you up, but I don't like to be wrong and you don't shut up.
My view is, while the overseas numbers are up again (11 is incorrect, BTW), There is also lots (more than last year) of English and young lads in the squad. If anything I think the balance is probably lower, there's probably a higher percentage of English to overseas at Rovers now this year than last, whether they're selected to play or not is another matter for another day, who cares?
The Australian national team could (well, couldn't because of the pesky quota and salary cap) play as Rovers next season and win the Cup, the League leaders and the Grand final. I would absolutely love it.'"
Good for you and your consistent approach. Refreshing.
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| Quote: dum-dum "Exactly, so whats the problem with us having so many? Jog on son.'"
The state of our national game? Credit where credit is due, your username is very apt.
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| Quote: Mrs Barista "Mild Rover's perennial refrain about "eventually the numbers will come down when <insert latest dispensation here> unwinds". '"
Given up on that one. After Crusaders went pop, splattering Australians around the league and the new Heremaia-Dobson interpretation of the 2008 exemptions... yeah, it's not happening.
But we'll still get to test the hypothesis that it is a lack of opportunities, rather than a lack of depth of talent, when our best go off to play NRL.
Tbf, I think that might help more, as our best will then be stretched more regularly.
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| Quote: Old_Faithful_IAKW "The state of our national game? Credit where credit is due, your username is very apt.'"
Was that a question?
How does Hull KR having overseas players affect the national game? If we played without our overseas players, we'd be crap and I would have thought the rest of the league would miss out on the much needed competition which is needed to progress, if the other teams followed suit the standard would lower and we'd be even further behind the Aussies.
The username 'joke' has been done, wasnt funny or smart then, either.
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| Quote: Old_Faithful_IAKW "The state of our national game? Credit where credit is due, your username is very apt.'"
We've been in SL 5 years,Our National game has been in a state 20/30+ years?
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| Quote: Old_Faithful_IAKW "The state of our national game?'"
Here's what I put on another thread.
Quote: Old_Faithful_IAKW "Just maths innit?
There are outstanding, good and ordinary players both here and in Australia. And in similar proportions, looking at the right hand ends of normal distributions. The absolute numbers though are (crucially) different.
Let's say that England has a dozen 'outstanding players' at any one time. Players that wouldn't look out of place in State of Origin. Not quite enough for one a team in SL (especially with the likes of S. Burgess, J. Graham and G. Ellis heading over there), or to fill out an International XVII. Also they tend to be forwards, leaving us short in the backs.
Australia, I'd guesstimate for these purposes has 50.
Let's now say that for every outstanding player there are 10 good players.
That's 120 Englishmen and 500 Australians.
Just over nine Englishmen for each English SL club, meaning that the 17 man team and 25 man squads have to be filled out with ordinary players.
The Aussies have more than 30 good players per NRL team (though the NRL is expanding, of course), which is a surfeit. So good Antipodeans come over here and take the place of ordinary Englishmen in SL squads.
The numbers I've used for illustration are arguable, but the principle is sound, I reckon.
Now you get the occasional spectacular Aussie failure, but mostly they come across and do a good job - which is why there is always demand in the market.
Coaches who choose what you might call 'average Aussies' over 'promising Brits', do so for similar reasons that I'd choose a [ismall[/i pile of banknotes over a [ibig[/i bag of coppers. You're judging the groups by different standards, when the only one that matters to a coach is what they offer the team.
The reasons for this disparity are, I suspect, to do with coaching, sporting culture and, most important, junior player numbers.
There is nothing amazing about the situation. As the NRL gets richer and bigger, a new balance will develop. And England will most likely still only have a dozen outstanding players - because quotas don't make junior coaches better or get more kids playing the game.'"
I submit to you that there are no outstanding players (or probably even many merely good ones) forced out of Super League by imports. Now some ordinary players who have the potential to be good/outstanding, may be denied opportunities - but tbf the bounce back rate from the second tier is low, so either that is [ireally[/i hard to do or there isn't actually much wastage.
Great Britain last won the Ashes in 1970, the World Cup in 1972. Imports might be having an adverse affect - but there are other more fundamental issues.
More British players might be desirable in of itself. It won't though make any significant difference to England's chances of beating Australia, if we're just promoting more players from closer to the middle of the normal distribution.
If you're just doing some cross-river moralising and points scoring, I apologise for wasting your time.
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| Quote: Mild Rover "If you're just doing some cross-river moralising and points scoring, I apologise for wasting your time.'" I hope for his case he isn't as he has little room for movement looking at how many of their recent juniors have made the step up.
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| Wow MR, my thoughts all summed up into a post I was too dum (can't spell dumb) to compile.
And AS, that's a sore subject, the pot's calling the kettle black.
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