April 1980 that's why I do not remember them I was to busy getting ready for may 1980 I wonder why I was may be or black and white pals will know

It is difficult to imagine how they might do that though.

Can you imagine them turning around to the people looking to develop clubs in their own cities, such as Perpignan or Toronto, and saying 'we like your ambition and welcome your investment, but we'd prefer you apply it to Dewsbury - here's a map and number for a local B&B.'?

We offered a better prospect in 2013 or whenever it was and our only suitor was Tony Larvin. There's only so much the RFL can do to influence where people choose invest their time and energy.

I was in Boston a couple of years ago walking around in an FC polo shirt, and bumped into Robin Peers in a bar (ex-Gateshead player), who recognised my shirt. He's over there coaching the 13's.

They also used to have Kane Bentley in their squad.

There's a decent standard of competition over there now along the East Coast, looking forward to the 2025WC.

The problem is, Superleague isn't going to grow as a competition or a brand with the inclusion of Dewsbury (to use your example). Dewsbury are probably at their level.

I also take issue with you saying "they've been neglected"? What are you expecting the RFL to do? If a club is reliant upon away fans, rather than attracting new sponsors, investment at board level, new fans etc, then that's their own fault unfortunately.

The RFL aren't in a position to turn down investment from major cities like Toronto or Toulouse. It's not necessarily their strategy, I'm not sure they have a strategy to be honest, but the current league structure means that new clubs can join in L1 and earn their way to SL.

I don't think the inclusion of Toulose and particularly Toronto will help grow Superleague as a comp or brand either.What have Catalans actually ''done' for rugby league? A jolly away trip for a few hundred fans?Other than that I can't see any point in them being in the league.

Didn't roger millward go out to the Chicago bears training camp for a week in the 80s

I love that argument.

What have any team added to the comp based on this logic? And before u trot out the away fan line, very few teams take 1000+ anywhere so it almost becomes irrelevant.

It's not an argument it's an opinion.This is one of DGM s pet subjects and iv read many pages of people making a case for and against Catalans etc. After looking at it from every angle I see little positive in a french team/s even less in a Canadian.I wasn't going to trot out any statements about fans etc as claims and counter claims can be made. It's my view simple as that. If I'm wrong and down the road these teams thrive then so be it and I don't have a problem with posters who think it's a great idea.It looks like either outcome we are going to find out soon enough

Catalans are a funny one.

They get decent crowds, they bring through a lot of youngsters, they have decent sponsors & commercial dept (their own broadcasting deal for instance) and they attract some top quality players to the competition.

Where they fall down is, for the most part since 2006 they've been plagued by poor coaching, which probably won't get much better under McBanana, and also a mis-management of the cap by paying the home-grown lads peanuts. That's why we currently see so many Frenchmen playing elsewhere.

A lot of people cite a reason for the inclusion of Catalans was to improve the French national side. This wasn't so. It was hoped that an effect of Catalans being in SL would be an improved French side, but Catalans are competing with everyone else, and shouldn't be held responsible for a poor French national team (who again have suffered from poor coaching, including rugby league luminaries like Goulding & Agar). Toulouse should help in this regard by exposing more French lads to a higher standard.

The problem that has materialised with cities such as Toronto, Perpignan, Toulouse and London, all expansion clubs, is their lack of 'monetary' contribution to the leagues they play in. It has been the focus of debate at Rovers - the lack of support from away teams at CP this season - and the above are notorious examples. Even Dewsbury brought more than Toulouse and London when added together!

Next season the Championship not only loses Hull KR but also the Bulls, and 'gains' Toronto and maybe Catalans. What hope for the traditional M62 corridor?

Referring back to my chat with the Dewsbury director, he explained their proximity isn't a problem because they have strong rivalries with Batley and Fev, and even cross support between the three clubs. The tri-derbies attracted attendances that Koukash would be happy with! For me this has a higher value USP than another overseas team.

He also added that the cash injection (from Rovers away support) would hopefully translate to improved performances on the pitch, in that it took away the existential angst of will the monthly wage bill be met. It was noticeable how Dewsbury hit form a few weeks after playing us. Coincidence? Maybe, but food for thought.

The "away fans argument" against expansion clubs is such a weak & lazy one Paul. I see it so often.

The crux of it is that clubs should not rely on income from away fans. Hull & Rovers certainly don't. Away fan income is effectively a bonus because it's so difficult to accurately forecast.

Particularly in this current league structure whereby a club isn't entirely sure who they'll be playing next year and the year after due to P&R. You single out expansion clubs, but what if Salford or Huddersfield were to be relegated to the Championship & a club like Barrow promoted instead - it'd hardly swell the away fan income would it?

For some reason amongst certain sections of RL fans, there's an obsession to discuss away fan numbers.

Clubs relying on away fan numbers like Dewsbury (to stick with your example) have to have a serious look at themselves, at their commercial strategy & at their business model. Generate new revenue streams, work to increase home fan numbers, go out & attract board-level investment etc. For instance, if Rovers took 2,500 to Dewsbury (I don't know the actual number), then Dewsbury only need to increase their average home fans by 250ish to offset this "loss". These attitudes of self pity & fear of anything new are what holds the sport back.

With regards to their "monetary contribution", you have to think a little bigger than away fans. With a larger viewership, larger attendances, closer proximity to centres with large corporates & potential new fan bases, a larger geographical footprint and more media attention - comes larger sponsorship deals, larger broadcast deals etc.

Would Superleague be a bigger "brand" with Toulouse & Toronto than it would with Dewsbury & Featherstone - of course it would! And it's that increase in brand perception that brings with it increase broadcast, sponsor & corporate revenue into the sport.

I've not seen one article on Dewsbury this season, very little on social media from them, & not even a thread on the Virtual Terrace

. Compare that to the world wide attention Toronto have brought to Rugby League this year and you'll get a sense of what I mean.

I'm still not overly convinced away support is a valid criteria for inclusion or not when deciding on who's in and who isn't.

We were a one off last year, one that I don't think would have been repeated if we'd stayed down. So that can realistically be discounted from the argument. So then we are talking around 50 - 250 (max) people traveling in the championship and 100 - 1000 travelling in SL, a lot less if its a Thursday / Friday night match.

Yes the boost we gave a few championship teams was good but it wouldn't be sustained and the 'traditional' clubs wouldn't offer the same return, or even a noticable return.

The best RL can hope for is a raised profile and external cash, maybe the expansion clubs offer this.