OK Derwent perhaps I was being a bit cruel, but after 61 years of trying I think we can gloat a bit.

Why the expansionist model that the RFL have been obsessed with for far too long with is so flawed is because the basic business model is not secure. A franchise works on the basis that the original company works, it has been tried out over a long time, it has a product that customers like and pay for. This creates profits, sufficient enough to make the founder think that the model might work else where. The founder then does research to look at is this viable. If this planning comes back positive then the founder decides to launch the option for new franchises to be created.

RFL please take a look at this very summary of what a franchise is.

To me only when our game is truly secure in the heartlands, should the POSSIBILITY of expansion be looked at. And only then.

For too long we have been trying to catch up with Australia. Australia is not obsessed with expansion of the game. When this was tried during the Super League/ ARL era, this caused disaster and nearly ruined the game.

The Australians excel in having a small number of teams which are run very well. They each have incredible youth policies, marketing and commercial departments, and create a real buzz in the areas in which they are based.

As we have seen with the whole Bradford debacle, when a supposed catgeory B Super league, safe team goes into administration then there are major problems with the game.

That is why I think it is was to expand into areas which have no interest in rugby league at all. Concentrate on the herartland, get that right first.

Let us not forget the case FOR expansion which is, basically, Les Catalans. That part of France could become a heartland in the next few decades quite easily, and folk would never believe it wasn't.

I would prefer less commercialisation in rugby league - clubs built less on money making principles but more upon the values of the sport. The salary cap is a good system (compared to the alternative of inflated wages in football) but if clubs like Bradford are going bust there must be some holes in it (I don't really know the ins and outs at Bradford). I would control foreign ownership of clubs (which basically distorts everything in football) and I support the RFL owning assets in clubs and actively intervening when clubs go bust.

Basically, if player wages and asset costs can be managed (mostly by the RFL) the 'heartlands' will be maintained in a pretty constant state.

I'm sorry but the RFL hardly have a good track record as regards expansion etc. Gateshead and Sheffield for instance, the original clubs were asset stripped to shore up Hull sharks and Huddersfield, to their eternal credit both clubs reformed. Paris were first, when that didn't work Catalans came in,London broncos have had that many identities i can't even take them seriously . The sport is not in a good position, why try to expand ,when what you already have is struggling. There is only so much finance available at the moment, can't see the point in spreading it thinner on something that has been tried and is seemingly ,at the moment , unachievable .

I don't think Catalan are a good example. The team is propped up with Aussies and Kiwis. The smattering of French players in there has not helped to increase the standard of the French international side.

Surely Catalan would be better served playing in a stronger French elite league. France RL desperately needs a higher standard top league. Come to think of it so does the UK.

Good debate. Looking at the wreckage of tried and failed expansion clubs over the years, it's hard to make an argument in favour. Then of course there was Mansfield Marksman, Kent/Southend/Folkestone Invicta, Carlisle Border Raiders, Blackpool and Bridgend ( however, at least here there has been a spin-off of the North and South Wales teams). Expansion can work - the amateur game has proved that, but I believe, unless and until the game gets a foothold in schools, circumventing Rugby Union, we have little hope ( I don't see that happening any time soon). Better to make sure that we support and develop the teams we already have than to spread ourselves too thinly in my opinion.

On a separate point, as I've said before, 18 games in a season is too few. It does not allow you to gain momentum attendance-wise when there are yawning gaps in the schedules. Am so glad we have been promoted, as at least next season we will be getting another four home games which will help greatly and, of course, the added bonus of getting local derbies back! Good times. I'm still looking at this thread title and having to pinch myself!

the present Catalan side is represented in the french league with their reserve club (UTC) - the current Catalan Dragons squad contains 19 french qualified players who have played for the first team in the SL this season which isn't bad and hardly 'propped up with aussies and kiwis' as you suggest but I agree the international team hasn't progressed much and won't until another french SL team emerges and even then they will never compete with the likes of the England team with such a huge professional pool to choose from