Thought Kevin Brown tried everything he could tonight, he deserved better from his team mates

Don't worry he will be confirmed as a saints player at the end of 2014.

For me composure is the massive thing!!

Someone posted on here the other day that Betts doesn't coach them to drop the ball, throw wild passes and give away daft penalties. I'm not sure what they are being coached at the moment. But it is his job to eradicate these issues and get the team back to doing the basics. A good start last night was completely undone by some completely silly moments of madness.

What happened to the nice angled attacking line that we saw early on in the season? Why do our forwards always receive the ball standing still next to the man passing the ball?

Why does Betts seem completely unwilling to try and change things around until the game is completely gone?

It's the same every week giving stupid needless penalties away in the opposition half piggy backing them into our half.

You're told as a junior if the ball is on the floor throw yourself on it, put your body on the line. It was Micky Poor as the first op stated the desire of our players to get the loose ball.

Saying that the defense was vastly improved and without having direct stats I would say there were as many line breaks for each team. Wigan finished theirs with great speed or support play - Widnes blew all but one of their's as they eother weren't fast enough or "composed" enough to finish off.

Poor bugger.

You can't put down that much ball, then not make much effort to dive on it, and not get punished by a team of our calibre. You seemed to beat yourselves before we even got the chance to have a go. Lots of respect for your few fans who turned out and never stopped singing though, I wish our fans were more like that.

Pretty good summary!

IMO that game could have easily have had an 18 point turnaround! Unfortunately out application was dire. Saw effort just a bit of panicking and as said lack of composure. We handed Wigan 3/4 tries directly from putting the ball in their hands and we also blew at least 2/3 great chances after breaks.

Your team needs to wake up!
Dropped balls happen in every game, against the best teams it costs you as it did against Wigan.
What I thought was poor beyond belief was that at three play the balls there was no Widnes player at dummy half. Usuallly you never see that in a season never mind three times in one match.
Ah Van should have been penalised he took so long to ptb.
Widnes got lucky when Hampshire did come from an offside position.
Widnes got very lucky indeed when McIlorum scooted away with the Widnes ball and was penalised for running after "held" had been called.
If Thaler had decided to play the game to the rules then Mcilorum should have been brought back to ptb. The Wigan attack was set and the Widnes defence all over the place.
Dropped balls are poor but happen.
No player at dummy half three times in one though, that's terrible beyond belief!

Indeed it is poor

Indeed it is poor, Ted but it's just yet another example of how poorly coached this Widnes team is.
As far as I am concerned next season starts right here and now with London at home tonight.There's no point in writing off the season with nothing left to play for so I say let's use the remainder as a trial for next year when the pressure will really be on to avoid a bottom two spot.If I had anything to do with it I would set Betts a target of 4 more wins (London,Cas,HKR and Salford) with the added condition of no more than 29 points conceded in any games remaining.Now that would give the coach some pressure practice and if he isn't up to attaining that goal in a trial run then very little chance of doing him it for real next year.

Why you telling us what we already know mate?I want Betts out as do other Widnes fans, but out of our control.

It's all if's, buts and maybes's. fact of the matter is we are one of the highest points scorers in the league, if we sorted out our defence maybe we would be a lot higher in the league but as the defensive structure is poor we find ourselves a lot lower in the league.

On a side note, Lawton is going to be a big star but probably wouldn't have been given a chance if P&R was brought back for this season.

I'd be far more concerned if we changed coaches than stuck with Bets for next year. We've had a few close results go against us this year yet are still in a decent enough league placing. Keep progressing and you could almost say we make the 8 easily which is madness. Betts has a settled camp that seems to have good unity and an idea of where we want to be. He also seems to work well with the board and budgets set.

Changing now would have more chance of a negative than a positive effect IMHO.

I agree. We've had some terrible performances but a lot less than last season and when we've been on we're one of the best attacking sides in the league. We've made clear progression that's all I'd be asking for with Betts. It'd be quite unfair to sack him after he (likely) coaches us to three places higher than the season previous. We keep going like this next season we'll win a few more of the tight ones and have a few less drubbings.