No one will ever get SL from the Championship if Widnes fail...???????
I was half agreeing with you until then, there can be and WILL be stronger bids than your current one in the future. Other clubs will gain the infrastucture, backing and youth policies that work but it will take time and effort. The difference will be the achievements on the field. For me your application is weak in this department 1 NRC cup and mid table places can and will be improved on.
I agree you have the best application for the franchise, however it is not the best that can be.

Your rant does smack of arrogance if you can not see that.

SOSs how do you work that out? Look at all Champ clubs... Ate they going to add 1000 to crowds? 2mill to turnover? Build new stadiums (bar Leigh) and set up a youth structure that beats SL sides weekly?

I hope Widnes are the framework for future bids but i fail to see how another bid from current Champ sides could be stronger! On field maybe but then the other parts? Highly unlikely on current form!

<SIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIGH> some people really do need to grow up and deal with the realities of the current system. instead of childishly and pathetically railing against Widnes. we did not create this situation. if you want to spout misinformed, childish, out right ignorent crap about us somehow being the bad guys then do it on your own teams boards. because firstly, we dont care as we actually know the realities of the current system rather than ranting about the way things 'should be' and secondly as a result of the aforementioned you are wasting your obviously copius time having a go on here.

I will wait to comment on the books when the accounts are officially posted as that has been done to death. As for crowds we all have a catchment areas; with good rugby on the pitch and advertising I can see certainly my club achieving well above 2500 average. Again this will not happen over night.
If you read it properly I said in the future. Why shouldn't clubs be able to better Widnes in the application process? How long ago was it that Widnes were in Administration? 2007..and only survived due to SOC dragging the club out of the mire. Widnes have come on leaps and bounds since then through the backing of SOC and a great financial structure.
My point is that you are not unique in this league. There are clubs with their very own SOC's waiting in the wings.

Post note...I am not slaggin Widnes off; I am agreeing that you have the strongest bid and by that should go to SL. What I am saying is that your bid is not the strongest that can be submitted and it is my opinion that stronger bids will be submitted in the future. This is a first pass from this league and Widnes HAVE laid a benchmark.

Not true, The were two other bids for the club after admistration. One of those bids was from Jim Quin, who is nearly as wealthy as SOC.


But they are unlikely to have the head start already offered to SOC. Our club already had much of what we have now in place, so he was able to take things to the next level very quickly. Only Leigh are even close to this position; they don’t match it, but they are the most likely.

Yes I believe it will be beaten..Thats my opinion and I fail to see why you can not accept that? You dont need to have the best application ever submitted, you need the best application for 2012 which you have! So why is it so hard for you to accept that imo, while you are enjoying your SL games that another club from the Championship could submit a stronger application than the one that gained you SL? (should you be chosen)
After all as I said before Widnes have managed to come out of admistration and within 5 years become the most financialy viable team in the Championship, so why can that not happen for other clubs?

By the way the more you rant on the more arrogant you are looking mate.

anyway thats it as I'm starting to repeat myself...Well done Widnes and if the RFL follow the rules they have laid down it should be a cakewalk to SL for you.
Im sure once back there you will become stronger each year.

Only because you cannot understand what I am trying to tell you. Your post shows it clearly that you have not understood me at all.


Because if Widnes fail to get a licence for 2012, even though we have the best application – your words not mine – what do you think that will do to potential investors in Championship clubs and fans wanting to believe that there is a genuine pathway to SL?

What message would that send out to clubs about running expensive youth set ups?

They may as well just give up trying.



Like I said, should Widnes get a licence, it sets the standard for other clubs to follow, shows that there is actually a pathway to SL for Championship clubs, and may well actually see a club bettering Widnes’ 2012 bid. It’s the impact upon the Championship should Widnes not get the licence that could cause a problem imo.

I’m not saying another CC club couldn’t achieve it, it's just that if the best application, and a dammed good one at that, is rejected then what incentive is there for the Championship clubs if the trap door has clearly been firmly closed behind the heartland clubs for good?

It has nothing to do with arrogance. It will also see the end of Widnes as a future SL club as well.

The way the Championship is going it is unlikely any club will offer a better bid than Widnes do now. Crowds are only going one way and Widnes' are larger and traditionally have been than all the clubs currently in the league.

Like Pepe said, if we get left out we'll very probably not offer a bid as good as we do now.

I'd disagree there Max , we have a salary cap , we've had that cap long before the ending of P and R , this year Widnes have not performed on the pitch , now I'd guess that you have spent within 90 % of the salary cap , I'm sure Steve O connor would have prefered and did indeed hope and expect you to have done better in the league , yes you will argue that it doesn't matter and that is true

So with the salary cap we have the only way to do better would be to shall we say ' find a way of paying players differently '

To his credit it would seem that Mr O connor has not gone down that route

At the end of the day we play in a very good even competition , hopefully next year will be the same , but with once again different winners

All the best

But this is my point, a return to P & R with this salary cap would be ludicrously unfair on a team like Widnes. We've never had P & R where all the teams spend the same amount on their teams. At the end of the day we are a professional sport and a league with promotion and relegation where every team can afford the cap doesn't make any sense. It massively favours teams with low crowds and small revenue and hinders teams with large revenue and bigger crowds.

With the cap at this level we could see Hunslet being promoted next year and Wigan or Leeds getting relegated. Leeds and Wigan would then stand the same 1 in 10 chance of being promoted as the other clubs paying the cap level.

So what you are saying is we should get rid of the salary cap in the Championships only ? , then naturally you will want it removing from SL as well ?

I'm sure you remember where that led us ?

It's not the same thing, there would be much more riding on the Championship than Super League.

For a start the cap is at a level where not all teams can spend up to it. Also it serves a slightly different purpose. In making the league more equal it strengthens the competition which should raise crowds. This is the current idea behind the Championship model as well. It works when there is only a title to be won. If we had P & R there would be far more riding on it.

I'm not advocating a total abandonment of it, just stating that a £300k cap with P & R would be ludicrous. Why should Widnes with the biggest crowds and most revenue only be allowed to be given an equal chance to be promoted, with all the benefits that brings, as Batley? If people are so bothered about it being about what happens on the pitch then surely clubs would be allowed to use what they have off the pitch to dominate on the pitch. If not we may as well become an amateur sport below SL where nobody pays anything.

I'm stating that most people who suggest a return to P & R haven't actually thought about the reality of what a return would mean, which in all likelihood would be Widnes dominating the division on the pitch.

Why should Leeds and W1g4n with the biggest crowds and most revenue only be allowed to be given an equal chance to to be the champions, as Salford

It works both ways Max

Do we really want a situation as we now have in football , where if one club can for whatever reason attract a billionaire businessman , they can buy a team of internationals , and dominate the competition , we are just now in both SL and the Championships having a situation where this year clubs that have not finished top are now doing so , last years winners in both competitions have finished 4 th this year ?