That's what I was getting at yes lads!

Is success building a team or building a club? As the RFL seems intent on maiing the Championship a feeder league currently i'd say building a club for a SL licence atm would be the best option!

Just a pity the RFL didn't visit those upgraded facilities when they went round the club doing their rating on the stadium in the ' license process', and I ain't joking!

One goes with the other in the long run.

It does but in terms of SL 2012, i'd be thinking of having both in order by 2010! As with no Pro & Relegation it's not simply about having best side on park anymore!

A couple of questions ..

1) Do Widnes own The Stobart Stadium ? If not, why has SOC spent money on it ?
2) If SOC is personally propping-up the youth system at Widnes (as posted in this thread), what happens if Widnes don't get a license and he walks ?

Des hasn't spent as much as people think at Barrow (certainly not the million or so SOC has). By increasing the club lottery and establishing a far more professional business acumen, the club is probably not far off supporting itself without Des' cash.

Sounds like SOC is the one throwing cash around. Relying on Des to pay for a full stadium development and a youth set-up would be far more than any fan would expect of an individual and is something I doubt even SOC would pay out for.

The only way you can apply for a license is if you win the NR Cup or get to the GF. Now we've got that one out of the way and can actually apply, we'll tackle the other issues. We only got promoted 12 months ago. Rome wasn't built in a day.

He has spent money on the stadium because it is all part of the club set up, he is splashing out on areas that will help improve our application nothing more nothing less, he has always stated that his main aim is to get us back where we belong and for that i am grateful

As was posted on your board... the money was spent on the stadium because the enhancements were going to directly benefit the club.
Firstly.. the stadium is not owned by the club, but make no mistake that the stadium is there for the club. It was purpose built for the Widnes Vikings.

Looking at the areas that were improved it is easy to see how the club benefited and why it was worth the investment. New gym, new changing facilities, new offices for the club staff, new media room. Plus if the ground improvements assist in getting the club a licence then it will have been worth it. The stadium is now one of the premier RL purpose built grounds in the country and rightfully receives plaudits from all circles.

Thanks for the replies. I have no doubt that the Stobart is a top stadium (hope to visit in 2010).
I just wonder how his finance worked with the owners of the stadium - ie those who make money out of it.

It's a bit like a the parent of a tenant approaching the landlord and offering to build a large extension and conservatory at no cost to the landlord. I'm not doubting SOC did it, but it just seems a bit strange.

I know that some Barrow fans worry about what would happen should Des leave the club. IMO most of that worry has been removed now the club is getting towards being self-supported.

A serious question ..... do Widnes fans fear for life post-2012 (inc the future of SOC) if a SL license isn't forthcoming ?? I think yor biggest threat would be if Toulouse have a belting couple of seasons.

Regarding Barrow, we really have turned a corner and for all DJ's faults he is a very astute businessman who has turned the club from a mid-table NL2 side to a profit making business with a fast growing fanbase and a near £1M turnover. It isn't all down to his money by any means.

Of course Craven Park is our biggest asset and also our biggest achilles heel. There has been progress going on behind the scenes for 18 months now regarding funding for CP development. The people 'in the know' seem very confident that the money will be available from various sources (including fundraising). Whatever happens about SL, the stadium needs to be totally modernised, so sooner or later it will happen. Whether or not it'll be in time for 2012 is anyones guess, but wth our current BOD anything is possible (as 2009 proved).

Widnes have the best fan base in the league and we deserve a licence as much as any superleague team such as salford,wakey,hkr etc.It all a joke and should go on promotion and relegation every year and the best team wins.No help to the french etc as we need improve the british game.We where better 20 or 30 yrs ago, we not gone forward due to so many aussies playing for celtic and french teams.

SOC hasn't really spent anything on stadium redevelopment as such. The only thing he has pumped money into is the seating area to make it more Vikings oriented.

Under the terms of leases etc. I'm sure any stadium alterations are subject to agreement from both parties.

Where SOC has spent the money is in the likes of player lounges/chill out zones, media friendly areas, player weights rooms and suchlike in order to give the club staff and visitors the best experience possible when at the stadium.

I don't really fear life after 2012 if we don't get the nod. The club will still be here and hopefully competitive - that's the main thing.

I hope you do come along next season as we had a good crack with your speccies las season - even though you stuffed us .

What I don't quite get is people think Barrow could run without Dez but Widnes not without Steve O'Connor? ALL clubs run at a loss and need decent backers that's a plain and simple fact atm.

As for stadium as I believe Widnes get ticket revenue and council get bar sales etc.

Barrow will not get a licence for 2012. It is also possible that Widnes will be over-looked yet again. If that is the case, we will probably have to lose our youth structures and suffer the same fate as the rest of the lower leagues, and become nothing more than feeder clubs. We will still be debt free and, almost certainly, in a better state than every other club in these leagues. In the long term, however, it could be disastrous for every club below SL. Once they become feeder clubs they will lose that important sense of identity. They will lose all hope and ambition, because they will be prevented from ever reaching the pinnacle of our sport.

The only clubs likely to see promotion will be expansion clubs, who could be dropped in on us from time to time - Although the Crusaders debacle may make even the RFL think twice about promoting clubs to SL that a clearly not ready. The RFL (Richard Lewis anyway) have stated, in a meeting with Halton MP Derek Twigg, that they intend to run the Crusaders from Wrexham and also run a club from Sth Wales in the Championship. So I can only see current Championship attendance levels plummeting to lower levels Championship 1 attendances.

In summary, if Widnes do not get a licence in 2012, they will be up sh/t creek the same as every other club below SL, including Barrow.

Aye. Selfish as this sounds I really want Widnes to get in before the inevitable drawbridge is pulled up. No one will be in a position to mount a successful Super League bid after six years in a limited, capped second tier.

Or see any point in going to the expense of running academies.

= unloved feeder clubs.

I want us to get a licence for 2012 too. But that doesn't mean that I agree with the licence system. In fact I hate it!