Heard from a good source a few players do not understand him and his tactics.They don't enjoy his coaching.

Wouldn't even bring in Noble, we need an Aussie like Nathan Brown or Michael Maguire to set the club right top from bottom.

It's nearly impossible to defend DB at the moment but in my opinion I can see why the board haven't sacked him just yet. If we park the away games for a moment as I genuinely think there is more weight being given to Home games.
I think after the early games against Wakey and Salford a target was set of beating London. But before we even get there we put in one decent performance against Leeds and then a fantastic result against Wigan. To top it all off we win the London game and DB buys himself more time. No complaints!
Then we have an atrocious game against Bradford and he is probably issued a final warning again. What happens next... we very very nearly beat Saints. Everyone's happy (well nearly everyone)
What is this followed by? The performance on Friday night. I am almost certain looking at the games coming up that DB would have met with PC and SOC and a frank conversation about the expectations concerning this upcoming game and indeed the Cats home game would have been had. If we are honest this is the first away game in which we should be expected to be able to compete and possibly win.
Hudds, Hull FC, Catalans, Warrington and Saints all have the capacity to paste us and it was no major surprise they did. Unfortunately in this game a beating turns into a mullering very easily especially when confidence is low. The manner of the defeat is galling but along with Leeds and Wigan I would have said we could get mullered at these grounds. Hull KR I have kept away. I know we got murdered up there but to be honest the conditions were shocking and we lost Ben Cross and Paddy Ah Van in that match.

So is it any surprise he is still at the club? Not really. I actually think that it's a good thing we have a Chairman that shows some patience. We all laughed at Des Johnston up there and things are not too far down a dark alley that we can't find our way out to where we want to be. Keeping him for this long is reasonable concerning the results, keeping him beyond the next three games if we don't perform would be a time to start scratching your head. Until the end of the season and I agree it's bonkers.

I do think it is likely that if we lose and lose badly at Cas then DB may be moved out.
Maybe we'll get a win and it will galvanise the team and we begin to perform better. t's certainly a good opportunity to put two good performances together back to back.

Before our next mullering against the Wire.

Surprise victory over Catalan providing they through to the next round of the cup? Week off to prepare?

The recruitment for this season was very poor - although you didn't have much time to build a decent squad.

For the rest of this season I'd look for more loan signings - Liam Hood has just gone to Dewsbury and would have been a useful player to have around. I'm sure there are a number of quality players in the U20s who'd do a better job than some of those you've had playing this year. I'd also be looking at the top Championship teams and see if they have any players who fancy the challenge for the rest of the season to earn a SL contract.

What you can't do is just let this season go down the tubes the way it is, or you'll find recruitment for next season even harder.

If we loan any more players then I will cancel the stronghold. Seriously...

We have been and are obsessed with loan and dual reg to the detriment of our own young players.

I can almost hear Paul Cullen in the back of my head saying " Ah, but they only have a young training age compared with Joe Mellor (or any other Wigan player) ".

I dont want to have to watch loaned Wigan youngsters year after year.

And you are right recruitment was a up although that is not the clubs fault if you listen to them.

We came close to signing Tim Sheens & Darren Lockyer (apparently) so that might have been able attract a better calibre of players to Widnes, instead of the likes of Cross & Isa. We offered Darrell Griffin more money than anyone else but choose to sign for Leeds (could you blame him?) instead. Still that doesn't account for the mess we find ourselves in at the minute.

They wont be getting sacked. SOC has stated he will not settle for the abuse Betts is getting. If he hasn't been sacked by now, hes here to stay, until the end of the season at least.

Whilst I'm sure the club did offer Tim Sheens the head coaching position, there was never a cat in hells chance of him coming here. I actually think that the club are bullting us here. It seems clear that Denis Betts was always going to be the coach. This was just a smokescreen to pacify the fans into accepting Betts. [i"We tried to get the best coaches in the world but they turned us down"[/i They must think we were born ing yesterday. It insults your intelligence.

I, for one, don't appreciate being lied to. Betts is a total crock of sh/te and that is why the team are hopeless. We are not following the Huddersfield route, as we are not investing in the first team. SOC has invested a small fortune in the clubs infrastructure and yet skimped on the first team with poor players and an almost worthless coach, who was out of his depth in the Championship. SOC didn't want Sheens here precisely because he would attract top wage earners and if anything, the last 4 years has shown us, it is that the club don't do that. The first thing they did, after taking over,was set in motion a process to get rid of the higher paid players, no matter how good or committed they were. They replaced them with out of favour under 25's from other clubs and crocks. Why? because they are ing cheep. Why Denis Betts? Because he was probably the only coach who will work under such tight financial restraints.

How else do you go from trying to recruit the best coach on the planet and end up with Denis Betts?

If you are going to be spend thrift on the first team you, at least, need an experienced coach who can get the most out of what he has available. Betts is clearly not capable of this.

Considering that club officials were saying that we would be spending to the full cap, everything the club have said since our arrival in SL has been a total contradiction of that. I am becoming very disillusioned with the club, and I'm finding it harder and harder to believe a single word they say, and I'll lay odds with anyone that Tim Sheens will never be the head coach at Widnes while the current board are in charge.

Quote: Pepe "Whilst I'm sure the club did offer Tim Sheens the head coaching position, there was never a cat in hells chance of him coming here. I actually think that the club are bullting us here. It seems clear that Denis Betts was always going to be the coach. This was just a smokescreen to pacify the fans into accepting Betts. [i"We tried to get the best coaches in the world but they turned us down"[/i They must think we were born loving yesterday. It insults your intelligence. I, for one, don't appreciate being lied to. Betts is a total crock of sh/te and that is why the team are hopeless. We are not following the Huddersfield route, as we are not investing in the first team. SOC has invested a small fortune in the clubs infrastructure and yet skimped on the first team with poor players and an almost worthless coach, who was out of his depth in the Championship. SOC didn't want Sheens here precisely because he would attract top wage earners and if anything, the last 4 years has shown us, it is that the club don't do that. The first thing they did, after taking over,was set in motion a process to get rid of the higher paid players, no matter how good or committed they were. They replaced them with out of favour under 25's from other clubs and crocks. Why? because they are loving cheep. Why Denis Betts? Because he was probably the only coach who will work under such tight financial restraints. How else do you go from trying to recruit the best coach on the planet and end up with Denis Betts? If you are going to be spend thrift on the first team you, at least, need an experienced coach who can get the most out of what he has available. Betts is clearly not capable of this. Considering that club officials were saying that we would be spending to the full cap, everything the club have said since our arrival in SL has been a total contradiction of that. I am becoming very disillusioned with the club, and I'm finding it harder and harder to believe a single word they say, and I'll lay odds with anyone that Tim Sheens will never be the head coach at Widnes while the current board are in charge.'" Oh I totally agree Pepe I was just going off this report: www.liverpooldailypost.co.uk/spo ... -29757450/ Whatever the reality we are in a ing mess right now.

Quote: Pepe "Whilst I'm sure the club did offer Tim Sheens the head coaching position, there was never a cat in hells chance of him coming here. I actually think that the club are bullting us here. It seems clear that Denis Betts was always going to be the coach. This was just a smokescreen to pacify the fans into accepting Betts. [i"We tried to get the best coaches in the world but they turned us down"[/i They must think we were born loving yesterday. It insults your intelligence. I, for one, don't appreciate being lied to. Betts is a total crock of sh/te and that is why the team are hopeless. We are not following the Huddersfield route, as we are not investing in the first team. SOC has invested a small fortune in the clubs infrastructure and yet skimped on the first team with poor players and an almost worthless coach, who was out of his depth in the Championship. SOC didn't want Sheens here precisely because he would attract top wage earners and if anything, the last 4 years has shown us, it is that the club don't do that. The first thing they did, after taking over,was set in motion a process to get rid of the higher paid players, no matter how good or committed they were. They replaced them with out of favour under 25's from other clubs and crocks. Why? because they are loving cheep. Why Denis Betts? Because he was probably the only coach who will work under such tight financial restraints. How else do you go from trying to recruit the best coach on the planet and end up with Denis Betts? If you are going to be spend thrift on the first team you, at least, need an experienced coach who can get the most out of what he has available. Betts is clearly not capable of this. Considering that club officials were saying that we would be spending to the full cap, everything the club have said since our arrival in SL has been a total contradiction of that. I am becoming very disillusioned with the club, and I'm finding it harder and harder to believe a single word they say, and I'll lay odds with anyone that Tim Sheens will never be the head coach at Widnes while the current board are in charge.'" Oh I totally agree Pepe I was just going off this report: www.liverpooldailypost.co.uk/spo ... -29757450/ Whatever the reality we are in a ing mess right now.

You've had a good break from the rugby then yea?

The Sheens to Betts thing and Lockyer to White etc was all explained by the club from the offset! They will go for World Class but if not would look for younger British based players and refused to be top dollar wages for mid caliber players. Rightly or wrongly this is what they always said so why it gets brought up time and time again is beyond me.

Also why people take an under performing first team so bloody personally is beyond me too!

Ill second that heard it from the horses mouth FACT !

Which [i"World Class"[/i players are Widnes going to attract?

I'll answer that for you - NONE

So what does that statement actually mean then, Joey?

I'll answer it for you again - They'll bring in 25 and under cast off's from other clubs and bad boys full of baggage and loan players. They have tried it in the Championship and it failed miserably. They are now doing the same thing in Super League to ing disastrous effect. It's a completely meaningless statement that is designed to confuse the brainless into accepting mediocrity.

So talking of bringing in "world class" players is nothing more than a way of bamboozling the fans into accepting the 3rd class dross that they do bring in, because they have put us under the impression that the club really has ambition, when in reality they haven't.

Now, I fully understand that it was going to be difficult for us to recruit quality players - never mind [i"world class"[/i - so, I was reasonably happy with some of the recruitment. The players themselves, on an individual basis, are pretty much your bog standard, bottom of the league stuff. All we were ever likely to get, but they are performing like a mid-table Championship team. This is, in part, because we have no halfbacks. We have none, because they didn't bother to recruit any. We've got a scrum half, in Rhys Hanbury, who is actually a fullback/utility back and a stand off, in Anthony Watts, who is actually a hooker. This leaves us with Danny Craven, who is very inexperienced at this level. I don't think we've even kicked a single 40/20 all season. Given that our home ground is perfect for this, it shows just why we are struggling. We are a team that will always be on the back foot and, without a good kicking game we'll struggle to relive this pressure.


Then there is the coach. We are being told now that he was only supposed to be a no2 to Tim Sheens. They never said any of this at the time of his appointment, just that they tried to get Sheens but ended up with Betts. As we were never going to get Sheens, the club are bullting yet again. I'll ask again, How do you try for the best coach on the planet and end up with one of the worst?

Denis Betts was very poor in the Championship and now is proving to be a disaster in Super League. What other club would have given him a 2-year Super League contract after such an abysmal period in charge of the team in the Championship? It ing beggars belief. It is as if the club just wanted a coach who would be happy with the culture of mediocrity that pervades it these days; so they recruited a coach that they know would see it continue. This is despite Terry O'Connor telling anyone who would listen that Widnes will be spending to the full salary cap when in Super League.

Every other aspect of the club is top notch, but the main aspect of the business is left to rot. The absolute minimum is put into it. It doesn't seem at all important to them. It has been this way ever since SOC took over. Yet he just expects fans to turn out to watch it in their thousands, regardless of the dross they serve up. More than that, he expects people who were not fans before to suddenly become VSH members. He is telling us that he was told that we'd get thousands more fans, just because we were in Super League. He doesn't say who told him that though, or why a such a poor, under performing team should be capable of attracting large numbers of fans.

I could go on and on about so many contradictions that have been coming out of the club these last few years, and what is happening seems to be starting to look like an exit strategy by SOC. He is trying to manoeuvre the fans into a position where he can hold them to blame for not turning out and supporting the club. All he'll have to say is that he delivered on his promise of getting us to Super League. It looks like a pretty hollow promise at the moment.



What I take personally is being lied to. I don't like being fed bull either.

Totally agree with you Pepe.
If, as we were told they went for world class players & a coach & were turned down, then why;
Didn't they look a lower calibre Aussie coach? (Salford did & so did both Hull clubs) So Denis could be their number 2. Or even an English coach Noble-Kear-Powell-even Justin Morgan as he has just done what we are aiming to do with Hull KR
Why didn't they look for a better class of player than we have now?
I have listened to & read the reasons given for this & have come to the same conclusion as Pepe.

Widnes were going to spend vast amounts of money on world class but because they couldn't get them they decided to make do (smells like bulls~~t to me). Looks as though the thinking is leave it as it is & hope our youngsters come through. Well it hasn't happened & the first good one will be leaving us (Mull)

Which leaves our club in an awful mess as we are dire meaning that fans aren't turning up, less income, less salary cap= downward spiral.

If the club don't act all the effort & money getting us to SL will be wasted as we will be back in the championship in 2 years

Aaaanyhoo, your second favourite club (Halifax) smashed Fev today on their own middin' 12-60. Fax are top o' t'league once again. It feels fan-bloody-tastic!!!

Hope you all feel better soon. You're in there for three years at least don't forget