Who do you support, sunshine?

Beyond reproach are you?

Bellend how many fans they have?

Maybe fev should be in superleague, thats a maybe. The one thing i now for sure, if fev were in superleague that little titchy, long since died on its mining village could not support a team in any which way worthy of the place in superleague. so what exactly is your point?

If Fev were in SL they would have exactly the same problem, a lack of time to assemble a squad for the first season.

With the greatest of respect, Widnes is a very small town too.

We can't really read into sizes and populations of towns. It doesn't mean anything. London get the poorest attendances in SL yet London is massive.

Widnes 60,000 population and Featherstone about 20,000.So is bigger and with Runcorn part of Halton add another 60,000.So your point for Featherstone?

Maybe he just needs a little more time? I know its frustrating but keep supporting your club. Bradford went through this.. Steve Mcnamara was awful for us and our attendances dropped & look at the mess we're in now, we're finally getting some decent results but we havent got a penny! Ps had a fab day out on Monday & despite the negative press regarding the Bulls finances we were made to feel very welcome! Thank you & Good Luck

Featherstone add Pontefract with a population of 30,000. You're talking a total of not far off 50,000 mate. Widnes really isn't that much bigger.

but then Widnes (and the rest of the world) also has about 500 years of social and technological development on Fev

Haha, you mean things like shoes and knifes and forks?

Still double in size with Runcorn and a catchment area in North Wales and the Wirral.Widnes still have a few thousand more fans than Fev so no comparison really.So i still disagree with what you are saying, as i dont think they are near our structure.

I'd argue that most in Runcorn and the Wirral and North Wales won't be rugby league fans (Unlike Pontefract). However, the few that are might follow Widnes but they are just as likely to support Saints and Warrington too. Geographically we're all tied together.
Anyway, we'll agree to disagree. I've nowt against Widnes. I've never disliked them even when they were a top team which in a few seasons you could be. Continuity is key, especially with coaching staff.

I see your point too mate but when Fev where top of the league and Widnes where mid table we still had better support.What does not help to improve our fan base at the moment is our poor performances.Imagine Fevs attendances if played last 5 yrs crap?Does not help the area with Man Utd,Liverpool,and Everton fans.We all know extra support comes from success and like most teams support can come further a field.We need to get the product on the pitch before marketing further a field.To be honest Rugby League will always be behind football and Rugby Union for national interest.

Has it ever crossed your mind that due to the Franchise System Widnes didn't have to do much else once they had ticked the box. Had they needed to win the GF for promotion don't you think that SOC would have done his damndest to ensure they would. Instead he spent his money ensuring that all other aspects of the club were up to scratch when being assessed - not rocket science to work out is it.

Under a licence system, Fev have zero chance of a licence. That is more of a knock at the system than at fev by the way. I would much prefer P&R.

The people of pontefract may well be RL fans, but the area is littered with clubs that like to claim it as their territory, and fev will probably be at the back of the queue. You don't have anything like the support base in the Championship that Widnes had and we topped that statistic nearly every year. Even with a team.

The Halton area combined has a population of around 120,000. Halton council hs a 10% stake in the club, owns the stadium, promotes the club within the borough and Widnes has pretty much a sole stake within all of the schools in the borough. It is also part of our service area. Then there’s the Valhalla Foundation which is developing its community relations through a number of projects and initiatives based in and around the surrounding areas of Widnes and Runcorn. They deliver rugby league core skill coaching within schools both during and after school. The after school coaching in particular is designed to culminate in a tournament where the children can showcase their new skills. There have also been several very competitive curtain raisers to first team matches at the Stobart Stadium following the work done within schools. There are, contrary to what you say, many people in Runcorn who have an interest in RL. Some of them are VSH members.

So we are spreading the game outside of the traditional areas too. the fact that there aren't as many RL fans in the other regions we are targeting is actually a bonus. There's no other clubs to compete with either - they're all ours.

Then there's infrastructure, stadium and finance. You really would have to be utterly deluded to think Fev are anywhere near Widnes on that. What they do have, is wrapped up in several acres of land.

From a licencing criteria point of view, Fev are a very long way behind Widnes. From a playing standard point of view, Fev have got us beat hands down. There can be no argument from any Widnes fan on that score over the last few years. I wouldn't even be surprised if they could beat us now. We are very poorly coached. Steve O'Connor made a huge blunder in appointing Dennis Betts and he is making an even bigger one in standing by him, imo. It is bleeding our support and making us look like chumps. That could be changed by giving Betts the bullet and getting in someone who actually has a clue what they are doing.

On the playing side, Fev do deserve to be promoted but, just because they can do that in a very financially levelled Championship, doesn't mean that they could sustain it in Super League for 3 years. Even some big clubs are finding that hard. That could financially destroy a club like Fev. At least P&R had the safety valve of relegation. So, there is no way that Fev do deserve to be in a licensed Super League before Widnes. With a P&R system yes but, if that had been in place, Steve O'Connor would have built a side in the Championship that probably would have been promoted anyway. Widnes would probably be the only team that could've spent (Legally and within RFL laws) up to the £400k salary cap limit. Either way, the [i"Fetherstone should be in Super League before Widnes"[/i argument, is totally based, under the current circumstances, on emotional and irrational notions.

And...

Before people have a go at me for pointing out these facts, I do not support the licence system and, further more, Widnes aren't responsible for it being in place.

If P&R still existed more clubs would go out of business in the current economical climate. Any promoted club would now find it nigh on impossible to put together a side which wouldn't finish bottom. There just isn't the timescale for a part time club to be transformed into a full time outfit. Hull KR were the last club to be promoted and be successful but they were full time when they went up. The franchise model at this time is the only answer unless the promoted club were expempt from relegation for at least two years.

Just to add to what I was saying, Widnes pulled in 3000 odd in for a televised derby game this evening. Featherstone pulled in 4000 odd.

Lot of protest stay aways yesterday due to the inept display against Badfraud. Throw a Liverpool v Everton FA Cup semi final, The Grand National + a tea time televised kick off and that's the attendance you're gonna get.

As I said on the VT, if Widnes could guarantee that effort and commitment for every game there would have been double that crowd figure. Fev were always going to pull in a decent crowd against their biggest rivals in a one off game. You can't guarantee when they're gonna play each other again so folks will turn out to see it. If people thought Fev would have won before the game then another few thousand may have turned out at Post Office Road.

We play Saints again this Friday.

So what your biggest game for a number of years as you not had a big Derby game for years.It was expected to be close unlike Widnes v Saints.Been on the BBC and in Fev or Castleford not as many support Liverpool and Everton.It was also the Grand National.The true reflection is the league attendances.Widnes always averaged more than Fev even though you where top of the league.

I wonder why Widnes' attendances ed all over Featherstones while in the Championship then?

We had a stay away protest going on yesterday against Betts.

I'm a Saints fan mate. I live in St.Helens. I'm not bothered about Fev.
The Fev-Cas game was televised too and like Saints & Widnes was a big derby game.
I want a strong Widnes team in SL, it's another potentially great derby game for us. I remember when the fixture used to pack out. The only way they can build is if the fans turn up, and they can then spend that money on better players next year and the year after.

I guarantee you that the Super League fixture will be at least double this, possibly even 3 times bigger if we have a competitive side by then.

You can't compare a Challenge Cup game on National TV with previous times when it was packed out.

Maybe the Fev fans had a stay-a-way protest for pretty much the whole time we were in the Championship Pepe!

Was it a protest???



Only in the minds of certain individuals. There was nothing arranged about it.
People simply decided that
[listafter a day of sport[/list:u
[listbeing able to watch the game without paying[/list:u
[listtaking into account the likelihood of a good thrashing[/list:u
they just didn't want to pay the money and make the effort.

The attendances will improve again in the league and hopefully a few who haven't been will have been encouraged by that display and turn up for future games.

I agree, there was nothing organised. I have no doubt that many didn't go because of the other sporting events taking place that day etc...

The last point, you mention, is the clincher for me. If we were playing reasonably well and hadn't had that absolute shocker agin Bradford, or suffered 4 years of dross leading up to it, there would have been at least another 1,000 - 1,500 Widnes fans at that game - even with all the circumstances surrounding that day. Many people on the TIW said that they had had enough and wasn't prepared to pay good money to watch such a poor team get battered, and that was, in no small part, a reaction to the continued presence of the coaching staff and the tolerance of said coaching staff by SOC. Fans voted with their feet, Chris. There are even fans now saying that they will retain their VSH memberships but not turn up any more until the current coach has gone. I have no doubt that the majority of fans voting with their feet on Saturday was indeed a protest - no doubt at all.