I’m not too sure what point, in the context of this discussion, you are making?

Fev haven’t done what we have done. We have recruited too many young cast off’s from other teams, added young dual reg players and then have tried to throw in loads of our own youngsters. We did have some good, experienced players, but some of these were injured before we even signed them and spent most of this season out injured.

Fev built an experienced team and threw in a few young players with promise. That’s what I want Widnes to do. I want a tough quality pack and some quality backs. To this I want to see our own youngsters brought in. I want them to be playing in a team where they have a modicum of protection form the experienced players and learn from them in a winning environment. Barrow knocked the cr@p out of us in that last game. We were bullied. This is not a sport that tolerates any weakness, and such weakness will be exploited.





We are not full-time yet, and I’m far from convinced many of the players we have retained would make any sort of mark on SL. I’m not saying all of them would fail, but we cannot take a chance on them all. I've never seen a game were Bracek has impressed me. I'd rather spend that valuable space on the cap on a tough, old head who'll help bring on and protect our own youngsters. Gannon filled this role for so long, but he was on his own most of the time and he probably won't be here next season.



We don’t need to win to justify anything, but I would really like to see us do well next season. If we get the nod in March, every team we face will be up to smash us. We need some real muscle and experience next season to deal with that. I don’t want to go through another season like the last three and see us losing fans at the rate we are now. Having a winning team is b00dy important to me. In fact, that is what it is all about, surely?

A 1 year deal for Bracek with a final chance to prove himself wouldnt be a bad move IMO, like the rest of the lads he either wants it or he's resigned to playing in the championship for the rest of his career with teams like Leigh.

Went to watch the 20's super league final today vm..davies was immense,if we can prise him away from the pies a gr8 gr8 signing but somehow a loan would be the best we can hope for imo,they know this lad is a talent,look at farrell how he kicked on after his spell with us.

I'd sign Catic in a shot. Aggressive, incredibly quick for a big man, puts opponents off their game. All the things you want in a forward (who can play centre).

I totally agree, but I'm not even sure you can go as far as to say 'young and promising'. Its almost as if we'll take any young(ish) player as long as they've recently been at SL club academy. You would have thought we'd have learned by now that not all young players will turn out to be great ones. Maybe it should be a case of [ibetter the devil you know[/i and concentrate on our own youngsters - because a lot of the time it seems we're signing players that we don't know a great deal about.

You look at the Widnes recruitment over the past few years and you just can't see where we are going. We're picking up young players, but sometimes its almost as if we're picking them up purely because they're young - not because they have the potential to play in SL. Were the likes of Sam Thompson, Chris Gerrard, Kirk Netherton, Thomas Coyle or the dual reg players ever realistically going to be SL players for us in 2012? If these players can't stand out at Championship level, how on earth would they cope in SL? At least the 2001 squad had the boast that they won the last 15 games in a row and also won the GF. Back then, we had some real quality players for the division that we were in. I think the problem we've had recently is that we've had a lot of average players (regardless of age) and not enough quality.

I think Pepe is right - trying build a squad for SL whilst we're in the Championship just hasn't worked. May as well try and sign good players for our division now and negotiate with different players for 2012 when/if we get the nod for SL. If anyone we have already stands out next year then obviously they should be given a shot at SL, but I don't think many of them have done themselves any favours over the past 12/24 months.

I'm not saying that I think he has the potential to be a good SL player. I'm saying that for a forward of that age, the best is yet to come. The likes of Catic and McDermott are currently at, or past their peaks.

I think Bracek's aura was that Warrington shelved out all that money to pluck him from Saints. But you're right, he never looked up to the bill. When he arrived at Widnes he was better than Ben Harrison and iirc regarded as closer to the first team at Warrington than BH. The contrast between their careers shows how easy it is for a young player just to fall away when they seem on the verge of greatness.

I think there are better players out there and ones who don't need to prove themselves at that. I wouldn't bring him to Super League and so signing him for next season alone would be the best option I feel if that were to happen and obviously if he impresses we can look at retaining him.

Lobbyland rumour is Davies off to Huddersfield on a season loan, makes sense for the lads development.

Heard you had made a bid for Hobson.

That would be Brett McDermott who has played in every position for Barrow during his career? I suggest your opinion is based upon a very small number of games in which you have seen him and he has had the task of dealing with players like your own Jim Gannon who occupies a similar role. Its part of the game and every team needs someone to "look after" the young or the less physical players in a team. However to suggest the role no longer exists is simply incorrect and calling him a cheap shot merchant shows your ignorance. Are you prepared to call Gannon the same, preferably to their faces

As for the topic, Brett by his own admission has one more season in the pro game before, hopefully, coming back to the amateur game at Roose. He has stated he has no desire to go anywhere else and if not offered a contract by Barrow will retire.

Bracek as has been stated is not a world beater but is young and a decent player at this level, very consistent and with a very good work rate. Unfortunately it appears he has been given "advice" on what he should be earning and as uncle Des disagrees, he's been released. Huddersfield have apparently shown an interest in taking him.

Catic is currently in talks with the board and uncle Des has allegedly ordered a stack of pillow case sized brown envelopes to keep him at the club for what is apparently his last season in the game

Was discussing this at the Saints game with a Pie-supporting mate on Friday that often it's all about a matter of timing - Bryn Hargreaves looked pretty average when he was on loan at Leyth, was supposed to be heading back in to our league for all eternity when Wigan released him but Saints offered him a paltry contract (summat daft like £8k a year was mentioned) to play as a reserve prop, got his chance in the side and never looked back. The irony about Bracek is that, as far as I'm aware, he never actually played as a prop until he went to Warrington, and even then only filling in as an emergency option. Still, Cullen was the one who paid out for him so I'm here he'll be a better judge than a lot of us as to his potential.

Joel Tomkins had one good game for us on loan against your bunch away and most of us were mortified Doran had been dropped to the bench for him! 2 seasons later he's got a Wigan starting jersey, in the SL dream team and is an England international and a certainty for 4 nations trip!

And I'll tell you now that he was far from anything special as a junior player!

Bracek was signed by Barrow as a Loose Forward. Whilst not big enough for a SL prop, he could certainly hold his own in the pack at that level again (remember, he played almost 60 games for Warrington before coming to Barrow).

His footwork and workrate is excellent. I certainly would have liked to see him remain at Barrow. A reduced contract was offered (due to the 25% reduction in the salary cap), but he wanted to remain on the same money as his previous 2 year deal.

The prob that clubs are finding is that players are over pricing themselves....... they need a reality check or will be without a team as clubs aint willing to pay out big contracts anymore due to the salary cap in this league.

No part time player should be paid more than £20K in the Championship IMO....... the salary cap aint big enough for massive wages, when players like Paul and Bibey`s contracts are up at Leigh they will be offered less money like as just happened to Nanyn - accept em or leave I say.