Richard we don't seem to have enough punch in the forwards.I think 2 props like Cross and a fast hooker will improve our team a lot.I thought Brown had a decent game behind a beaten pack.

Hardly a kneejerk reaction though redchemic.This was yet another poor prformance from a Betts coached Widnes and the umpteenth defeat overseen by him.I think he has taken the club as far as he possibly can now.He even as much as admitted himself after last weeks thrashing from Leeds that the display had shades of 2012 about it.

I would be surprised if the new Board are even considering a change in the coaching (maybe at the end of the season if we haven't got more that the 14 points we have now and we get embarrassed at Wigan in the Cup, but even then I doubt it!).

I have a horrible feeling that the Cup game is one of the problems here, I sense that there is a genuine belief within the Club that we can pull off a win at Wigan and that all energies are focussed on that. A stupid approach if true, as I dont think its a realistic hope and even if it were I am not sure that we have the squad strength to go much further.

My preference is to consolidate our position in the league and not to leave ourselves vulnerable to being overtaken by Cas (or anyone else for that matter putting in a late burst!). A decent Cup run is fine if our league form is decent, but it clearly isn't at the moment.

What is so desperately frustrating though is that a half decent effort and we could have won last night's game, we gifted them the game with our own mistakes. They clearly put more effort and desire in than we did, but the chances were there and in the main went begging. A poor pass to Ah Van (which he might have done better with) prevented a certain try and losing the ball so many times when in an attacking position was just criminal.

Sadly Craven didn't look like a Superleague player, he wasn't alone, but we really missed Mellor.

As has been said before DB is not strong on tactics, he has been good this season at getting the best out of players and developing a strong team ethic.

Irrespective of what happens at Wigan, we really need to be back firing on all cylinders against London, we can't allow them to build on a decent performance away to Catalan.

Taking the point made by WV concerning Joe Mellor. Yes, we did miss him in midfield particularly for his defence around the scrum and the PTB, as well as his backing up. I can see why Betts keeps Hanbury at Full Back as Mellor has developed into a fine Scrum Half.

And just a little something I must add for the "Sack Betts Fraternity." Betts does not coack players to make silly mistakes like wild passes, stupid offloads, dropping the ball, forward passes, giving away daft penalties, and giving the ref backchat. I do hope some people realise that.

Yes but Betts offers or wants players to have contracts who are not at Superleague level.

Wigan fan in peace. I'm amazed you guys are so down in the dumps, you almost beat us a few weeks ago (would have drew if your halfback didn't do a daft grubber into touch at the end instead of knocking over a drop goal) and you've a reasonable chance of beating us this Monday given our current form. Win that, get drawn against the winner of that London/Sheffield game in the semis and you could have a challenge cup final to look forward to. So chin up!

No, but he is responsible for eradicating them... if not.. what is he there for?

I suspect DB is working under some pretty tight constraints money wise, given the slower than hoped for increase in support and like most people would tend to opt for players he knows.

I think the only two players who have been signed up who are borderline are Pickersgill and Leuluai. Pickersgill despite some decent early season performances seems to have lost form recently, so he clearly needs to up his game and that is reflected at the moment by him being our "last choice" prop.

Leuluai has improved dramatically this season. OK he dropped the ball once last night and slow reactions by him and the rest of the team led to a try being snapped up by Wakefield, but several other more experienced players also dropped the ball last night as well. DB I think feels there is more development to come with Leuluai, although I agree he is probably only ever going to be a back up player.

I think he does have weaknesses as a coach, he is clearly not a master tactician, but as Old Viking says those mistakes last night mainly from experienced players were basic schoolboy errors and its hard to blame the Coach for that. Yes we can blame him for the delay in bringing Gore on, unless DB thought he would have a rough ride against the Wakey pack. maybe we can blame him if he rested Mellor, although I would have thought he would have wanted to play if he could.

I suppose a disappointment for me is that a few players seem to have gone backwards (Craven, Pickersgill and Phelps to name 3 some of which may be injury related) and with player development one of DBs strengths that is a worry.

We could all do with a bit of a boost, either by bringing in the odd loan player like Dwyer or announcing a signing or two for next season in addition to Tickle. Mind you if they are relatively low key signings that may make a few fans even more depressed! All we can do in such circumstances is to remember Joseph and hope that they can be similar surprise packages!

I think the general glumness comes from the erratic form we seem to suffer from. Unfortunately there have been too many performances in which we have just missed out or where we have lost as a result of truly shocking play in defence.

Pickgersgill and Leuluai I would not have given contracts too.Bit late putting Gore on too but I agree with some points Wirral.

With the Salary cap going back to 50% of the clubs income,we are going to struggle to get top class players,apparently if the owners are willing to cover the shortfall you are allowed the full cap,now with Soc more or less saying he has put enough money in that leaves us in lower salary cap limit I would think.

It is kneejerk (IMO). We lose, we're not going to get a new license, we win, we're heading for the playoffs. It's kneejerk reactions after virtually every game.

We have to take things in context and look at where teams were when they were in their 2nd season of SL. I haven't got the figures but I bet we stack up pretty well.

Betts is coaching a side missing leaders on the park due to injuries and when we have a squad with a lack of quality, we miss our better players when they are out of the side.

This team Betts coaches is a far better one than last year and we would have been pasted last season if we played with that lack of intensity.

Although we're losing, we're losing better (and less often and by less points than last year) !!!

Enough is enough.If Widnes persist with DB then the club are sleep walking back to the Championship.It is not about over reacting or pessism,,just pure common sense.What worries me and surely must worry even his fiercest supporters is the fact that Betts has yet to coach Widnes under any pressure.When he arrived Paul Cullen had already ticked the application for SL box by winning the rails cup.Then shortly afterwards the club were awarded a licence so results didn't have to be delivered .jThen once in SL he had the comfort of a three year deal with no threat of relegation.Even last night there was no pressure as we were underdogs.Yet despite all of that he still cannot coach a performance from his team,not even a gutsy defeat.Is anyone really expecting that suddenly Betts,next season will be able to deliver the goods when the pressure is on.?

Agree time is up for Betts as his team receive the ball standing still and very predictable.Signs Leuluai who is not good enough for 2 years and the pudding Pickgersgill
We need a few props who make yards and Wintersteine been lazy again.Betts does not utilise his squad and could have rested players who are not fully fit.Flynn,Briscoe,Davies,Gore and Lawton could have been used more often.

The fact that we have gone up the league table from last year with better results and performances across board but 'are heading in the wrong direction' amuses me greatly.