I'm forced to agree with the cuffster. I know its early days but we are much the same as last season in terms of overrall attitude and approach. It has to be coaching. There is no leader, there is no organisation. We looked good in the final 20 because Salford ran out of petrol and had a 30 point lead to sit on. I will say that I think ah van was a warrior again today, as he was against wakey, he ripped Salford up at times in the second half. White is dead weight, Isa is just a complete liability and winterstein seemed to vanish today. Its not being beaten, im prepared for that, its the down right shameful way the team has gone about it

Ah Van had a good game again it is the rest of the team.Winterstein is not fit enough and a few other players.Clarke one of the older players was fitter than some mid twenty players which is wrong.Craven postioned himself well today but I rather have him at standoff than that crap Lloyd White.

The defence in the 1st half was appalling,at least they put a bit more effort in 2nd half.
To be honest before the season started I thought we would be in for a few tonkings but when it becomes a reality it doesn't help. I agree Ah Van is doing his best and showed great determination for his second half try.

I agree with the first part of your statement, we're very unprepared and have had excuses at the ready from the start (which was telling).

However You make no sense whatsoever with the second point. Betts has never coached in Super League ever so how can he have been "away"?

An extremely good summary of how I feel right now. The excuses were made as soon as we got the nod.

What went wrong? Possibly Agar>Betts + Veivers>Betts = 2 defeats by better organised sides. I ain't saying sack the guy but we should certainly review his position after the season.

Coached Wigan. Replaced by Milward

He coached wigan? I didn't mean as a head coach soley I meant away from rugby league in general, (when involved with RU) and not watched the progression of the game since he was last involved with a SL club, against Wakefield you looked clueless with ball in hand, and by the sounds of it you were well out your depth against hudds.
Now having 6 tries shipped in in the first half against a team considered on par with you is very very worrying, salford look like they sat on the lead second half knowing the game was already won.

Was he caretaker after Gregory took ill then? Forgot all about it. Thought he'd only worked as a youth coach at Wigan.

Yep, too much time away from League whilst in Union is a fair comment Red League and the inexperience showed in the Championship too. After seeing Salford in the previous two games I quickly dismissed any notions of us being on a par with them. Now it's self-evident.

With regards to Betts I'll be intrigued to see how long he gets unless he turns it around. Franchising means we don't have to be short-termist so I'm not expecting drastic to happen until about half way through the season.

Widnes have some talented players. No doubt, but your situation is somewhat similar to the one Salford found themselves in. You don't have a coach who understands how to battle against adversity. Betts has never coached a decent level and got the Widnes job on name alone, speak to anyone who has ever met him and they'll tell you he doesn't have it upstairs.

Hopefully you haven't given him a 4 and 1/2 year deal, like we gave our dead wood coach. I'd beg Cullen to take the reigns again, if it was my club. Not the best, but light years ahead of Betts.

Beggars believe that we gave Betts a 2 year coaching job after been so e in the Championship?1 year maximum and has been out of the game over 5 yrs when came to Widnes.He has no credentials and we need to recruit someone like Noble,Daryl Powell, or some aussie coach.Widnes fans are losing patience now like myself as we are not doing much in creativeness and kicking game is terrible.Defence what is that?

How can you lose patience after 3 games. I think some of you guys thought you would stroll into S.L. and just start competing straight away. It just doesn't work like that and those who thought it would are being bloody nieve.
This season will be tough. You have to bit your lip and run the season out. Aiming to be in a stronger position next year.

One thought though is I think your fancy pitch could be your undoing. You have no adverse weather affects to help even games up. It's a perfect surface for the faster stronger teams. So early season teams like saints etc.... could potentially destroy you. The affect on moral for the season could be huge. Salford have the fastest wingers in SL and some quality backs. They were able to use their speed as an advantage. Better teams will relish the surface.
What do you guys think.

So you missed the good off load to get Widnes back in the game at the time? I thought he was with Ah Van one of your stand out players.