the way i see it we have retained allen who just offloads the ball to floor and doesnt do much more and is small for a back rower,pickersgill who just gives penalties away for fun and lulu and haggerty who have no discipline and released varks who trampoles people ever week hulme who can beat players on a sixpence and tyrer who has a try scoring record of 1 every game and has defended well are looking to be on there way although on twitter tyrer says he hasnt been released yet

I've played against craven and honestly have no idea how he's made it this far.

You obviously have never watched him when he's been on tv for us... the lad is kerwality!!!

Whereas you've made it onto RLFANS.....

I haven't seen anything in Allen for a while to suggest that he should be given a shot next year. Having said that. He was excellent in his first spell with us, impressed at Oldham. Was superb at Barrow and his return here was very good indeed. It seemed to go downhill for him the minute he was awarded the captaincy last year. Hopefully we'll see a little more of the old Dave Allen next year, wide running, makes good breaks, provides good offloads and isn't afraid to put his shoulder in.
Pickersgil is terrific when fired up and is getting older and wiser. His discipline is an issue but like Doran last year he gets some stick for penalties that aren't always his doing.
MacGraff is young and it will be interesting to see how he goes with FT training. For some reason I think he could be a sort of Joel Tompkins type player. Flattered to deceive when we was with us but a few seasons later is quite a player these days.
Haggerty deserves his contract for the consistency he has shown this year. Put Finnigan to shame IMO and I have no idea how you can question his discipline.

Some players develop later and Craven played half all his youth yet excels at FB fantastically tuning into the line and is a good finisher.

The fact the lad at 18/19 has never looked out of place in the Championship and often been one of our best players says enough tbh.

Rugby was never a career option for me, I can make far more money doing other things.

I also was never good enough to make it, I didn't suggest I was. I was just shocked when I found out that he had, that's all. It's not that long ago that I played against him and there were definitely better players around.

Well said Chris.

I think some of the retained players are getting a lot of undeserved stick lately based soley on those not staying, even if they are a completely different position. Everytime talk of someone not staying for example Dave Allen gets flagged off and it's just not fully justified.

I made the point on TIW that Widnes fans seem to (and is fair enough) appreciate a grafter more than a skilled player, especially in the pack. Allen breaks the line probably more than any of our other forwards and also had the best 'skill set' by a fair distance right now.

We all love Varks because he runs straight and hard usually attracting a few tacklers, yet Allen doesn't do that and gets slated but his size won't allow as he's not a prop! So Allen runs the lines often behind the ruck and makes yards that way. Tbh I'd love to see his stats as I bet they show him in a much better light!

He was a half when I played against him. Granted I've only seen him play as couple of times so can't really judge on how good he is now. The point I was trying to make that I was shocked he had made it judging from when I had played against him in the past and that Hulme looked a better option from what I had known. I think my post was a little misunderstood.

Hulmey has made some mistakes a fullack but its not his natural position and despite this at times hes been devestating. He's only 20 and from what i heard he is gutted about the decision. I've heard rumours Varks wasn't even approached with a contract which he was disappointed about. 2 very good players and yet another decision which has shocked the majority of fans.

Apparently there are no marquee signings lined up and we have the majority of the salary cap left imo with only 8/9 players left to sign. I think a lot of explaining is to be done by the club to the fans who signed up for the VStronghold. An article the other week stated we were planning on spending around £1.5m, i can see us going no where near it.

We have retained some good players and we have Craven and Owens coming through, however Hulmey is the young player of the year and Varks was 3rd player of the year and we release them and retain the likes of Allen and Coyle who i really don't rate. I don't care what peoples opinions are on that, they have been ok this year but nothing shouts out to get them a SL contract.

Yes a opinion and Craven is a good one.

In fairness Viva bar his undoubted commitment and work ethic would about Varkulis shouts out give him a SL deal?