If you consider that Brecek is going to be SL quality, then I can understand why you, or anyone else, would want him here. I don’t think he’s even good enough for a top end Championship club and see no chance at all of him ever making a SL player.

I remember being lambasted on this forum for saying that Sam Thompson was e. Some people actually thought he was quite good.

Whilst Bracek is better than Thompson, I’m still totally puzzled as to what some people see in him.

I have to disagree Pepe! Not for this season! In 2008,09,10 you had a point but to change tact and build a championship winning sudecin 2011 would be daft! Earlier yes I agree but the year before a probable SL entry, where this season wouldn't matter for that... No way!

OK, how many of the squad, so far, do you actually think will be playing regularly and competing in SL in 2012?

Because I really can’t see too many who will be able to, and definatley not Bracek. Whether they are older or younger, most will be gone by 2012. If not, then prepare for a season locked at the bottom of SL.

What I want to see next season is a squad able to compete in the Championship. Come March, should we get the nod, we’ll have plenty of time to recruit a good team able to hold it’s own in SL.

It's a hard question to answer because realistically at the end of last year who would have made the call that Liam Finn for instance would have been so infleuntial at this level and walk away with the player of the year trophy.

I certainly wouldnt have forecast it and I do recall reading from some disgruntled Fev fans at the time of his signing.

Alot can change in a year and if one year deals get people playing for potential SL deals then its a great thing and us as fans couldnt care less about their performances form this or previous years.

Bracek is certainly a talented lad. He has been for a while now though and it generally seems to be his attitude that has let him down previously. Not just for him but a full time nevironment makes a massive difference for players stepping up and some will kick on and others will just drop back into the Championship as thiings level off.

I think we do forget but we took some average players with us or picked them up from the National Leagues and the full time environment and a good team ethic produced some good performances from them.

If we do well in the league next year then great but for me it's about getting individual players looking good and showing some promise. We dont need to dominate this league though to justify anything to other Championship fans though.

I hear Andy wanted 35k witch imo is way to much for him.

Steady away prop nothing flash never really breaks the line, Cullen would love him tho as he does the old Knees and Ellbows!!

I’m not too sure what point, in the context of this discussion, you are making?

Fev haven’t done what we have done. We have recruited too many young cast off’s from other teams, added young dual reg players and then have tried to throw in loads of our own youngsters. We did have some good, experienced players, but some of these were injured before we even signed them and spent most of this season out injured.

Fev built an experienced team and threw in a few young players with promise. That’s what I want Widnes to do. I want a tough quality pack and some quality backs. To this I want to see our own youngsters brought in. I want them to be playing in a team where they have a modicum of protection form the experienced players and learn from them in a winning environment. Barrow knocked the cr@p out of us in that last game. We were bullied. This is not a sport that tolerates any weakness, and such weakness will be exploited.





We are not full-time yet, and I’m far from convinced many of the players we have retained would make any sort of mark on SL. I’m not saying all of them would fail, but we cannot take a chance on them all. I've never seen a game were Bracek has impressed me. I'd rather spend that valuable space on the cap on a tough, old head who'll help bring on and protect our own youngsters. Gannon filled this role for so long, but he was on his own most of the time and he probably won't be here next season.



We don’t need to win to justify anything, but I would really like to see us do well next season. If we get the nod in March, every team we face will be up to smash us. We need some real muscle and experience next season to deal with that. I don’t want to go through another season like the last three and see us losing fans at the rate we are now. Having a winning team is b00dy important to me. In fact, that is what it is all about, surely?

A 1 year deal for Bracek with a final chance to prove himself wouldnt be a bad move IMO, like the rest of the lads he either wants it or he's resigned to playing in the championship for the rest of his career with teams like Leigh.

Went to watch the 20's super league final today vm..davies was immense,if we can prise him away from the pies a gr8 gr8 signing but somehow a loan would be the best we can hope for imo,they know this lad is a talent,look at farrell how he kicked on after his spell with us.

I'd sign Catic in a shot. Aggressive, incredibly quick for a big man, puts opponents off their game. All the things you want in a forward (who can play centre).

I totally agree, but I'm not even sure you can go as far as to say 'young and promising'. Its almost as if we'll take any young(ish) player as long as they've recently been at SL club academy. You would have thought we'd have learned by now that not all young players will turn out to be great ones. Maybe it should be a case of [ibetter the devil you know[/i and concentrate on our own youngsters - because a lot of the time it seems we're signing players that we don't know a great deal about.

You look at the Widnes recruitment over the past few years and you just can't see where we are going. We're picking up young players, but sometimes its almost as if we're picking them up purely because they're young - not because they have the potential to play in SL. Were the likes of Sam Thompson, Chris Gerrard, Kirk Netherton, Thomas Coyle or the dual reg players ever realistically going to be SL players for us in 2012? If these players can't stand out at Championship level, how on earth would they cope in SL? At least the 2001 squad had the boast that they won the last 15 games in a row and also won the GF. Back then, we had some real quality players for the division that we were in. I think the problem we've had recently is that we've had a lot of average players (regardless of age) and not enough quality.

I think Pepe is right - trying build a squad for SL whilst we're in the Championship just hasn't worked. May as well try and sign good players for our division now and negotiate with different players for 2012 when/if we get the nod for SL. If anyone we have already stands out next year then obviously they should be given a shot at SL, but I don't think many of them have done themselves any favours over the past 12/24 months.

I'm not saying that I think he has the potential to be a good SL player. I'm saying that for a forward of that age, the best is yet to come. The likes of Catic and McDermott are currently at, or past their peaks.

I think Bracek's aura was that Warrington shelved out all that money to pluck him from Saints. But you're right, he never looked up to the bill. When he arrived at Widnes he was better than Ben Harrison and iirc regarded as closer to the first team at Warrington than BH. The contrast between their careers shows how easy it is for a young player just to fall away when they seem on the verge of greatness.

I think there are better players out there and ones who don't need to prove themselves at that. I wouldn't bring him to Super League and so signing him for next season alone would be the best option I feel if that were to happen and obviously if he impresses we can look at retaining him.

Lobbyland rumour is Davies off to Huddersfield on a season loan, makes sense for the lads development.

Heard you had made a bid for Hobson.

That would be Brett McDermott who has played in every position for Barrow during his career? I suggest your opinion is based upon a very small number of games in which you have seen him and he has had the task of dealing with players like your own Jim Gannon who occupies a similar role. Its part of the game and every team needs someone to "look after" the young or the less physical players in a team. However to suggest the role no longer exists is simply incorrect and calling him a cheap shot merchant shows your ignorance. Are you prepared to call Gannon the same, preferably to their faces

As for the topic, Brett by his own admission has one more season in the pro game before, hopefully, coming back to the amateur game at Roose. He has stated he has no desire to go anywhere else and if not offered a contract by Barrow will retire.

Bracek as has been stated is not a world beater but is young and a decent player at this level, very consistent and with a very good work rate. Unfortunately it appears he has been given "advice" on what he should be earning and as uncle Des disagrees, he's been released. Huddersfield have apparently shown an interest in taking him.

Catic is currently in talks with the board and uncle Des has allegedly ordered a stack of pillow case sized brown envelopes to keep him at the club for what is apparently his last season in the game

Was discussing this at the Saints game with a Pie-supporting mate on Friday that often it's all about a matter of timing - Bryn Hargreaves looked pretty average when he was on loan at Leyth, was supposed to be heading back in to our league for all eternity when Wigan released him but Saints offered him a paltry contract (summat daft like £8k a year was mentioned) to play as a reserve prop, got his chance in the side and never looked back. The irony about Bracek is that, as far as I'm aware, he never actually played as a prop until he went to Warrington, and even then only filling in as an emergency option. Still, Cullen was the one who paid out for him so I'm here he'll be a better judge than a lot of us as to his potential.