In reply to dug out, I have been a widnes fan long enough to have watched all the players mentioned, and I'm not one of your boo boys but unfortunately AhVan is no longer good enough or quick enough to be automatic 1st choice. Young Owens should be 1st choice, when played together he has a good link with Phelps, knows how to score tries and is good back up goal kicker to Tickle.

Denis clearly rates (AhVan) though and likes to have him in his backline. I think his strapping is a permanent feature and I have always thought he had some sort of chronic condition, that limits his playing time, although he played in quite a run of games at the end of the season, but that may just be me jumping to conclusions.

I have a feeling that he is in the last year of his contract, surprised to see that he is still 26 and not 27 until March, so he could well be rewarded with a new deal if he can show some consistent form. Jack has only really had competition from PAV and Paddy over the last two seasons, but now has Hulme throwing his cap into the ring, OK maybe aiming for an occasional centre berth, but he has done well on the wing. Ince too would I am sure jump at the chance of an occasional wing berth, but he has loads of time on his hands yet. So its a bit more crowded out there in 2015 in the threequarters and most certainly in the pack and we are falling over players aiming to play at 9, if you assume that White and Heremaia will be first choice (in whatever order) then we have Gore and Carberry waiting in the wings, with no obvious alternative game time to keep them fresh. Carberry could well push for back row chances, whilst Gore can turn his hand to halfback, but with Brown and Mellor nailed on to play if fit, chances there will hopefully be few and far between and if we do have gaps then there are also Glimore and Craven to consider (Heremaia also has a wealth of halfback experience. Not seen Craven in the pre-season games but I hope he has got his confidence back, as he seemed to be slipping behind the likes of Gilmore last season after his early rise to fame in our final period in the Championship.

OK there is still a bit of a gulf in class and experience between many of our first choice players and their understudies, but they do seem to be closing the gap!

Thanks for the post Oldchemic. I am a fan of both Owens and Ah Van.If it comes down to a choice between a fit Owens and a half fit Ah Van then it ought to be an easy decision,Jack every time even though he is not an out and out winger.However a fully fit PAV firing on all cylinders, a rare sight admittedly, would be an asset to the team.I haven't yet given up hope of seeing that.Anyway Betts picks the team, all Ah Van can do is make himself available.It may well be that Denis has given Paddy AV three pre season games in order to prove himself for a start against Wigan but goes with Jack anyway after remaining unconvinced by him. we shall soon see when the squad is announced in the week.It would be foolhardy to select a player struggling for fitness when other fit ones are available,especially in such a big game.

As you have said DugOut a FIT AhVan would obviously be first choice. When AhVan first came to the Vikings I thought he was a great signing, unfortunately injuries have taken there toll over the past season, and having watched him in pre-season games, he is struggling to keep up with play when we are attacking, and his defence and catching of high ball is awful.

Ah Van is past it and crap now.Better options of wingers in the Championship.

Until he has a blinder against the pies. Never understand why fans call there own players must be a TIW thing. Nothing like a bit of constructive criticism eh

Like I've said I like him but can hate him too. I just hope Charnley doesn't have as easy a ride as he did in his first game back last year at Wigan against us and against Ah Van. He scored 5 tries that night Ah Van was shocking!!

No just an opinion as we cant all rate everyone that plays for our club.

A reasoned evaluation isn't rubbishing a player tbh. PAV hasn't looked anything like his best for months, maybe through injury. As has been said DB may have just given him as much game time as he can. Truth is, it hasn't worked. Jack Owens has filled that berth well and would cover that and the kicking duties if needed.
PAV may just need more time to get his rehab but we can't afford to take chances this year of all years!

I smell the witch hunt



If you look at the stats for last year ..... Owens 10 tries, Ah Van 9 tries. Considering he missed most of the season injured he must have done OK when he played.

He's The new Andy Hay, Testy.Pat is one of us, a Viking. He's on our side.You wouldn't think so reading this.Besides he doesn't pick himself in the team and any complaints should be taken up with the person who does.

A reasoned evaluation, does that include calling him crap ?