I was having a bit of a laugh with the ref to ah van being easy meat for charnley DO

Agreed re the starting 17 for us but some other teams players just dont like our pitch and with the top teams they could be rested but with the new system re relegation i cant see many top teams taking it easy

Whilst I accept that we don't yet have enough strength in depth to take this too far the most obvious change might relate to the size and or mobility of the opposition pack. Previously we didn't have much choice, we had to hope that our more mobile pack would hold its own, whether the opposition had a big pack or a smaller more mobile pack, because we just didn't have the option to go for size.

Now its conceivable that we could opt to match size with size, having got Dudson and Manuokafoa. So against the bigger packs, we might go with O'Carroll, Joseph, Dudson and Manuokafoa, whereas if we were coming up against a mobile pack then we might want to go with Gerrard perhaps even Kavanagh (who admittedly needs to kick on, but is no slouch), O'Carroll and Manuokafoa.

Alternatively we could look to counter size with speed etc etc. We clearly dont yet have enough established options in the backs to box and cox with them. So I suspect it will be more a case of looking at the make up of the pack against what the opposition are likely to put out, their style of play etc,

The squad shows why bookies have Widnes down For 11th place. The first choice 17 is fine but take a few out and we will struggle.
I really hope Owens is not another whose face doesn't fit. Given that Flynn is out and PAV seems to be struggling then he ought to have been automatic for a squad place.

Currently we have the largest squad in Super League at 35 and yet our main criticism is lack of depth in the squad. Only Wigan are close and they've 33 by my reckoning.

Strength in depth means quality rather than quantity.

Exactly my point. 35 in the squad but we've managed not to have enough quality.

Leeds are running at 24. How come our squad is so bloated?

Do you think we should slim down?

Do people think we'll trim down and replace with more established talents?

Or is a large squad with plenty of academy products the way forward over the next few years?

I've no idea myself what would be the best for the club. At 35 deep you have to wonder what kind of game time the fringe players are getting and how consistent a side we will be. But there again if it balances the books and gives us flexible injury cover when players of a more established quality are expensive and difficult to come by then it can only be good in the short term. And if some of the younger lads go well then it bodes well for the future.

We played many times last year without 'leading' players and got good results, because other people step up, and having a large squad means that if you're not performing, you won't keep your place. Great headache for Denis to have.

Completely disagree with 'Dug Out' that we look like a squad that will finish 11th - we were never out the 8 last year!!!! And have brought in some good players.

Judge this team when you've seen them play a few games.

Great point AJ, we have improved the squad overall adding much needed size and we were never out of the top 8 last year so we should be confident of being in or about that part of the league again this year IMO. All you get is we are a one made team and that all other teams had a bad 2014 which almost gifted us 8th spot, pretty disrespectful of how good a season we had on 2 fronts we had our injury problems last year too not least Mellor who seems to have been forgotten as a major part of our team by pundits etc.

I agree other teams have improved their squads from last season but a lot of them are and were above us last season, Salford should do better this year but they are still an uncertain entity for me. HKR brought lots of new players in and it always takes time to settle / bed in as we know, Wakey will do OK but should be below us, Hull well what can you say flatter to deceive nearly every year. Why will they be any different this year, the goldfish bowl of Hull seems to do strange things to that team! Castleford even with Powell cannot have as good a season as last year with even further departures so new players have to bed in again their.

I honestly believe we can be as high as 5/6 or will be in 8/9 again, no way do I see us being in bottom 2.

However I will add our season is going to be very tough in that we have a few occasions this season were we play on Sun/Mon and have to back up just 4 days later on the Thurs/Fri and with no so called give me (London / Bradford) that will certainly test us plus injuries are going to be a major factor for all teams IMO. 9 HOURS TO GO!!!!

Agreed, the quick turnarounds for games backs up the need for a big squad. If we had a squad of 24 (like Leeds) everyone would be saying we'll be screwed when we get a few knocks, but not with a squad of 35 - crazy statement to make. The idea of our slow, steady progression is that there is a way in which we play throughout the club, so when players come in they know what is expected of them. This philosophy is great when players are coming in and out of the team because it disrupts the overall performance far less.

Still not sure about Betts as a coach.
Ok we have improved our position year on year, but whether by good luck or good coaching ??.
Betts squad selections still seem strange and leave me puzzled at times.
Also lack of information with regards injuries ( can't see why, have to announce squad 48hrs in aance anyway ) leaves fans second guessing why players not picked.

No Flynn ( injured ?? Or dropped due to error at Cas )
No Owens (injured ?? or dropped ) safer option than AhVan and good back up goalkicker.
No Joseph, plays all 3 friendlies then left out or is he injured ??
No Dudson, Betts praises his game against Cas then leaves him out.
No Gore ( injured ?? or dropped ) plays in all 3 friendlies then losses out to Carberry.
No White ( injured ?? or dropped ).
No Galea ( made more breaks than any other forward and one of our top defenders, last year.). Losses out to Isa and Clarkson. Agreed Isa works hard in defence, but can't pass and has yet to make a break, and Clarkson has been average at best in the 3 friendlies.
Picks AhVan, even after 3 shocking pre-season friendlies.
Johnson, given 2 year contract halfway through last season and has not been seen since.
Still worried that it's more about if your face fits with Betts.
I live in Wire land, so the local rag might have details about injuries and so on that I don't see.

Anyway hopefully I am wrong about the squad, and we beat Wigan in our opening game.
But as said, Betts still hasn't convinced me, so we will wait and see as season progresses.

Posts like this is why we need the season to start.

We beat Wigan at home last year, but that still didn't 'convince you'. We also were in the top 8 all year. Betts has been here for over 4 years, how much 'luck' do you think he has? Rugby league isn't a game of luck over a prolonged period, to see the progression from year 1 to last year - that's a crazy statement to make.

I wonder if Dudsons omission is due to a clause in his contract inserted by Wigan.