Is it right that Leigh have missed the 2,500 attendance criteria tonight? I heard their crowd was sub 2k tonight. Does this mean they cannot apply or that they are at a real disadvantage? Some clarification would be nice from someone.

I must say though, come what may, it's a bit cheap to expect all of these things from championship teams. The longer our clubs are in the championship, the more difficult it will be to pass these criteria. If Leigh and Halifax don't go up, it's six years without them having even a chance of being promoted and not all the fans will wait that long. We all invest not only time and money but a lot of emotion in these clubs. Sometimes it seems like it isn't worth the effort, I've been there, I'm sure there are many who will feel the same from other clubs. We're on the road to feeder clubs, and the only dividing line between who gets to be feeder and fed is the luck of being in the right place at the right time. It's natural that teams like Wigan and Leeds are likely to always be around the top but Huddersfield? Wakefield?

And what criteria for super league teams to meet? Because surely, we could all be looking at much better attendances were we in their shoes. Why do they get a safe passage? Some of those clubs are heavily in debt and relying on early payments from sky. I am sure their finances will be reviewed in due course, but they don't seem to have this hanging over their head like we championship clubs do.

In spite of Widnes being primed for promotion and in good health I am more against licensing now than ever. It's going to kill some clubs just so the game can put up a false image of a more global game and I don't think expansion is working any better under this model than it ever did. You're just protecting the likes of Castleford Salford and Wakefield. And why is that? Why on earth protect them at the expense of Fax Barrow or Leigh?

Wasn't Millward lying again with no substance was it Chris? Lol!

Onwards and upwards Widnes RLFC, proof of what a club needs to do to make Super League!

It will be harder for clubs to go up but IMO if other sides get themselves sorted we cab bring back p&r but they made rules some chose not to follow and focus on first team? It's wrong but way it s unfortunately!

On Sportinglife it has the attendance as 1992... so effectively that is them ruled out according to the Press meeting last week.

I know exactly what you mean Dalto... you get the feeling that 3 more years in this competition and we would be struggling to get above 2k.

I've said it before... even being sat in the driving seat for a SL spot in 2012 I would welcome back P&R if it meant Fev, Barrow, Fax or Leigh went up for winning the GF. At least we'd know what we'd need to do next year and we'd get the excitement back in the league.

Great post, Chris.

The licence system is not about protecting Castleford Salford and Wakefield. I’m sure all these clubs would be in serious trouble should they be relegated, but they’d probably all survive it. The clubs which are really being protected are Harlequins, Crusaders and Les Catalans. They would disappear over night if they were relegated in a P&R system; therefore require the immunity from relegation which the licence system offers. It protects expansion.

That it does but like I've said it always felt like they gave up fixing the problems in P & R all too easily. At the end of the day, to protect the immunity from relegation for expansion clubs, everyone gets immunity, which might help some of the stragglers but harms a lot more outside.

And what can you do? Give the expansion clubs immunity and let teams get relegated from third from bottom? They're going to relegate someone from the top 8 potentially this season and put them in dire straits for three years.

It's all a mess.

I do agree with a lot of this. I mean, these clubs have been basically concentrating on short term gain in many cases, and then banging on about if they were under the old system we'd be nowhere near etc etc etc. I honestly don't think Barrow would have been promoted under the old system. Teams have been knocked back for similar stadiums before now. Throwing money at the current team is all very well and good but not if it will get you in to trouble financially and our team have been the ones getting the club right before the team.

I think Widnes could come out of this with rude health, if we're the lucky chosen ones. But then, I do feel sorry for the teams who are not. It does not bear thinking about us being in this division a further three years.

Serious question though, does anybody know, are they now officially out of the reckoning or can they still apply?

Like you said in your first post it’s all about [i“the luck of being in the right place at the right time”[/i.

That’s why Cas, Wakey and Salford have survived. They have all now made promises to have stadiums built over the period of this term of licences. If they now fail to deliver they’ll have no-one to blame but themselves.

IMO, if Salford don’t get that new stadium nearly finished by 2012 they should be kicked out. They don’t seem to be cutting the mustard at all in SL.

Like you say though, it’s a mess. The licence system is a joke. That’s not our fault, and it’s not our fault if Cas, Wakey or Salford get the boot from the top 8. All we can do is look out for ourselves in what is now a dog eat dog underhanded world.

Not if they don't get to the Grand Final

We’ll see. Even if they win the GF, and qualify to make a bid, I doubt they’d have a stronger bid than us.

Like you, I’d still prefer P&R and despise the whole licence nonsense.

I'm past caring.

All I know is - right now - Fax can't afford Super League and personally that's where any discussion ends for me.

I find the circus show currently being put on by the RFL and Super League clubs highly entertaining though. The Ringpiece Masters - Wood and Lewis. The three clowns Wilkinson, Wright and Richardson - scrambling manically to hold aloft the best artistic drawings of a circus tent. The freaks in a jar - Harlequins and Crusaders - you know they shouldn't be in the circus but you're drawn to their lameness in a pitiful way. The battle for top eight - the fight for the actual eighth spot is cringeworthy - one more away match!!! Wow!! Unfortunately, you won't see much of this in the media because they're busy covering a big Fair Trade exhibition in the tent next door and they've got a new attraction from Blackpool. Apparently by simply dreaming about Tangerines they've risen from the depths of hell and have forced their way into the tent.

Anyhoo, I hear in 2012 there's a new act coming to our circus. An act so fearless - so terrifying as to shake the very tent pegs of the circus tarpaulin.


Beware the Mutants!!!!!

It's posts like this that should get you the award for the top poster

Biting realism delivered with humour

As for any application from Leigh , I'm with Rich on this as well , I dont even want Leigh to apply , there is no point , we are not ready

Well if licensing is to continue then I sencerely hope that the RL drop this 2500 average to a more realistic level or scrap it altogether.What chance of any lower league club,and I include Widnes if we don't get a licence, attracting such figures with another 3 years of nothing to play for?