Why oh why does Denis Betts persist with Ah Van.
He is lazy, weak in defence, can't catch and useless.
Every team we play, targets his wing, knowing it is our weakest link.
Pre-season has been encouraging but for Ah Van.
Time to get shut.

I didn't go at the weekend but listened online and read the write ups and it did seem like he was at fault for 1 maybe 2 tries but then Flynn fluffed the kick at the end which gave them the scrum which set up the position for the winning try. I agree he can be vulnerable especially when teams get close to our line and go at his wing either via a kick up or grubber or if they use hands and run at him, but likewise he too can be devastating for us when we use him with kicks to his corner or wide passes. I don't know the facts but how many tries does he score compared to what he directly costs us? Betts must deem he is worth the risk, I'm undecided I like him but can be so frustrated when he let daft / soft tries in.

I think useless is way over the top and bordering on the personal.I make no apology for being a big PAV fan, however patience is wearing a bit thin.There is a fabulous player in there somewhere but unfortunately we see too little of it.He is so frustrating, if only he could eradicate the weaknesses in his game and show more consistency.A Patrick Ah Van,injury free and on top of his game would be great for both fans and team alike.I just hope we get to see it this year.

I don't see any point rubbishing the fella, as when he's on song he is devastating. Trouble is he hardly ever seems fit enough to walk let alone play rugby. I did go to Cas and his knee was strapped up yet again. Sadly he missed almost every one of his tackles, though he also did some decent carries and hard yards from the back.

By the way, Cas were kicking to Paddy as much as Ah Van - and we know that paid off at the end.

While I'd prefer to see Jack Owens given a decent run, a fit PAV would surely be an asset? On that basis I'm not sure rubbishing him is in any way helpful!?!

Ok maybe I was slightly over the top, but AhVan let's us down every game.
Flynn did drop ball, but was odd mistake, and also voted Vikings MOM by press.
Feel we would be better served by any of Owen, Hulme, , on wing or Hulme or Dean at centre with Marsh on wing.

Super League needs a fit and firing Patty Ah Van

I know he can look like he can't be bothered half the time but there's just something about Ah Van that you've got to love. He's the best finisher close to the try line in the first team. Prove them all wrong Patty!

Strange one this, I know the game has changed but no one bothered about the defensive capabilities of: Bevan, Van Voll. Stuart Wright, Offiah etc. yes I know they were special but there are lots of wingers only selected on attacking ability.

PAV seems to be the latest in a long line of targets for the boo boys old rocker.Mick George,Mike O'Neill, Andy Currier,Andy Hay,Adam Hughes,to name but a few, have all been there before him.

A fit Ah Van would be ok but you cannot play him strapped up all season again. He's lost lots of the pace he had when he first arrived. Keep him as a squad player for cover but I'd play Owens who is a better all round footballer. Also Owens will not wait around forever to get his regular game time. He got it 2 years ago but seemed to be out of favour last season and I am not sure why.

Personally i prefer Owens over Ah Van, but i would have Marsh and Flynn as the wingers.Then Dean, Phelps and Hulme for the centres.

In reply to dug out, I have been a widnes fan long enough to have watched all the players mentioned, and I'm not one of your boo boys but unfortunately AhVan is no longer good enough or quick enough to be automatic 1st choice. Young Owens should be 1st choice, when played together he has a good link with Phelps, knows how to score tries and is good back up goal kicker to Tickle.

Denis clearly rates (AhVan) though and likes to have him in his backline. I think his strapping is a permanent feature and I have always thought he had some sort of chronic condition, that limits his playing time, although he played in quite a run of games at the end of the season, but that may just be me jumping to conclusions.

I have a feeling that he is in the last year of his contract, surprised to see that he is still 26 and not 27 until March, so he could well be rewarded with a new deal if he can show some consistent form. Jack has only really had competition from PAV and Paddy over the last two seasons, but now has Hulme throwing his cap into the ring, OK maybe aiming for an occasional centre berth, but he has done well on the wing. Ince too would I am sure jump at the chance of an occasional wing berth, but he has loads of time on his hands yet. So its a bit more crowded out there in 2015 in the threequarters and most certainly in the pack and we are falling over players aiming to play at 9, if you assume that White and Heremaia will be first choice (in whatever order) then we have Gore and Carberry waiting in the wings, with no obvious alternative game time to keep them fresh. Carberry could well push for back row chances, whilst Gore can turn his hand to halfback, but with Brown and Mellor nailed on to play if fit, chances there will hopefully be few and far between and if we do have gaps then there are also Glimore and Craven to consider (Heremaia also has a wealth of halfback experience. Not seen Craven in the pre-season games but I hope he has got his confidence back, as he seemed to be slipping behind the likes of Gilmore last season after his early rise to fame in our final period in the Championship.

OK there is still a bit of a gulf in class and experience between many of our first choice players and their understudies, but they do seem to be closing the gap!

Thanks for the post Oldchemic. I am a fan of both Owens and Ah Van.If it comes down to a choice between a fit Owens and a half fit Ah Van then it ought to be an easy decision,Jack every time even though he is not an out and out winger.However a fully fit PAV firing on all cylinders, a rare sight admittedly, would be an asset to the team.I haven't yet given up hope of seeing that.Anyway Betts picks the team, all Ah Van can do is make himself available.It may well be that Denis has given Paddy AV three pre season games in order to prove himself for a start against Wigan but goes with Jack anyway after remaining unconvinced by him. we shall soon see when the squad is announced in the week.It would be foolhardy to select a player struggling for fitness when other fit ones are available,especially in such a big game.