He's struggling with fitness anyway, the rest will do him good.

Westerman and Ellis SHOULD be a cracking partnership next year. If Westy can't raise his game playing alongside one of the best in the world then he'll have to go.

He has lots to offer, for some reason isn't firing as well as he should.

To be honest I dont think Westerman has been the same since the injury at the start of the season when he popped his shoulder.

He showed signs of what he could do last season and hopefully with a fresh start next season with a settled team will see him as the player he wss touted as becoming. Think it has been difficult being out for such a long time and to be honest the team as whole since he came back has not performed like it was while he was out injured. Also don't think the coming and goings have helped with the team either.

Maybe Gentle listens to Stevo too much then as we have just accpeted a one match ban.

The same shoulder he "popped" into Lauaki's mouth?

Wasn't it his right shoulder? Besides which he didnt actually catch Lauaki with his shoulder, it was his bicep/tricep.

watched it on tv prob

My opinion on McGoldrick was never based on his applications to the laws of the game, nor his ability/performance on the pitch so what that has to do with this is totally irrelevant apart from the fact my opinion clearly rattled you as you did not like my views and if my memory serves me right I told you I was entitled to my views without posters like you constantly making sly remarks and having digs especially as you are one of the biggest trolls on other boards

I have not rated Horny for a few years and it is well documented on here however if he has a decent/good game I will have not issues recognizing that. My reference was regarding posters who make an assessment on a player and stick by it no matter what is happening on the pitch, in laymen terms they become their scapegoat no matter what their performance .

Turner has an area he needs to improve on as like you say his defensive work has been inconsistent in fact I agree since signing for Saints it has appeared he has already gone! However Turner has proved in several matches that he can perform very well defensively and offensively, if a coach can develop consistencies I will stand by the statement that I believe he could reach International without a doubt. I have never seen anything from Westy as yet to make me believe that he has the potential to be an International as yet however I recognize he has skill.
I also touted that Lauaiki was a good player and his performances and stats this season suggest he is, my point is we often get fixed ideas based on a few games and poorer performances we then fail to look at the players full ability/potential.

Well fair enough, opinions vary, I just personally struggle to see how someone could see enough potential in Turner to be an international and not Westerman, as IMO if both sorted out their mistakes Westerman would comfortably be the better player. I cannot agree that Turner has proved he can play well defensively in anything like several matches, either (the only game I can recall him playing 80 minutes and not getting caught out in is this year's Good Friday derby). For me, Westerman is already a good player with further potential to improve, whereas Turner is a poor player who currently needs to improve to even reach Westerman's level, never mind surpass him.

FWIW, I was one who did agree with you about Lauaki, there's a good player in there if both he and a coach can harness it.

Tbh it is not Turners defensive efforts that are the issue for me he makes a lot of tackles and misses very few, it is his positioning defensive efforts and I actually think one of the factors in this is his inability to build up a good partnership as he has not a always had an experienced winger on his outside, his performances have been better when he has teamed up with the experienced player Briscoe so I will be interested to see how he goes at Saints when he can form a regular partnership with an experienced winger, however like you say our opinions on Turner are polar opposite and that is not an issue.
I don't disagree about Westy he is a good player and has skills and I would not be shocked if he hit the International scene however like I say I have not seen anything yet that suggest to me he will.
Yes I remember you did rate Lauaki, I think there were 3 of us, you, Worminhand and me

most clubs except it now because you dont get anywere when you appeal in most cases they stick by there decision and in all honesty its not as bad as some ive seen this year the game is getting alot softer just recently just like that kick and clap posh boys game

I think it will be interesting to revisit our debate in a season or two tbh.