Very true, but we finished 6th and but for Lee Radford we could have finished 4th. Beating us in the play offs did Rovers no favours, except for bragging rights.

I prefer to judge things season by season and only change coach in between, we haven't had the best of starts but we're only 3 games into it.

People like to mention the 3 in 11 or whatever it is, but why not go further back to the beginning of the year? Because if they did it would improve, and that doesn't suit their arguments. Some people imo, still haven't got over who we were beat by in the play offs.

When the fixtures came out it was commonly said we would lose the first 3, and we did. The manner of the first 2 defeats was worrying, yesterday less so.



The common misconception is that people like me are pro Agar, I certainly aren't. The use of his bench is baffling and his treatment of Moa is disturbing. But what I do see is that He inherited a mess of a squad due to the poor recruitment and retention of Kear and Sharpe, and at the end of 2009 was his first chance to start putting it right. In 2010 we saw a fair amount of improvement, nobody can deny these facts. For this he deserves his chance this season imo.

every big game last season we came up well short, Leeds in the CC, Leeds at home, Wire away and Rovers in the playoffs...nowhere near getting to Wembley or Old Trafford.



and who 'commonly' expected us to lose the first 3 games this year? I expected 1 if not 2 wins against fellow Playoff opposition.

I apologise, i meant it was commonly said that we "could" lose the opening 3 not "would". I don't understand the "we're a big club we should be challenging" line. Do people not understand the damage sharpe and to a lesser extent Kear did with there recruitment and retention? Contracts that were given way above players Market worth was a big issue.

Well, quite. I'm fed up of hearing about how we [inearly[/i finished 4th. We finished 6th and then rolled over in a play off match against our biggest rivals.

by my reckoning 9 of yesterdays 17 were signed (or young players given debuts) by Agar, 4 by Sharp and 4 by Kear/Mcrae



that excuse of Agar's may have been acceptable 2 years ago, but not now.

I thought that everyone currently in the first team squad had been signed, or given an extension, by Agar?

The vast majority, probably still one or two who got long deals under Sharp though (Horne? Manu?)

No they've all re-signed or been signed by Agar.

Agar renewed Horneys, not sure about Manu though

Quote berrigans bitch="berrigans bitch"Agar renewed Horneys, not sure about Manu though'" news.bbc.co.uk/sport1/hi/rugby_l ... 679039.stm

Quote berrigans bitch="berrigans bitch"Agar renewed Horneys, not sure about Manu though'" news.bbc.co.uk/sport1/hi/rugby_l ... 679039.stm

That being the case, there really isn't an excuse about previous coaches stitching him up.

Clicked on the 'Hull sign up Tigers forward Manu' link and then ended up here [urlhttp://news.bbc.co.uk/sport1/hi/rugby_league/super_league/5415132.stm[/url



makes me even more depressed about the current situation! even Horne's kicking was described as being 'pin point'!

Yer I remember that kick from the scrum like it was yesterday, brilliant set move.



When was the last time we even tried something like that?

Then.

You all seem to be missing the point, players signed by Agar are obviously his men, can anyone complain about Fitz, O'Meley and to a lesser extent Long? Then there's Houghton, Briscoe, Westerman, Sharp and to a lesser extent Burnett all signed or given their current contracts by Agar. I'm talking of the likes of Yeaman on big bucks, who gave him that deal? Radford, Dowes both signed reduced deals more in keeping with their worth. It's the paying people more than they're worth that had done for us in 2008 & 2009.

It's funny because it's true.

I see where you're coming from but I take issue with Long in particular. So far that can't be judged as anything but a poor signing.

I agree, i suppose! But who else was available then? The only other I can remember moving clubs was Orford, that turned out well for the Bulls, didn't it? Long was by far the best available.

So why are we still getting the same results, Same Errors , Same predictable rugby from a totally differant side .

If he's on that deal now, it must have been Agar.



Anyway, to me, the issue isn't who we've had playing for us, it's that he has consistently failed to get those players playing consistently to the standard of which they are capable. Both as individuals and as a team.

We don't. In 2008 we finished 11th, in 2009 we finished 12th. In 2010 when he first had the chance to start improving things, we finished 6th.

He's not, that's the point. His new deal was agreed last year, reduced from the mega bucks 3 year deal Sharp gave him.

At the same time Rich & Steve were demonstrating their in-depth knowledge of the game by signing Long & Orford, Brian Noble managed to bring in Witt, Hanbury and (a bit later on) Sammut. That's not me plugging for Noble again but it just shows the nous that a proper coach can give you.



Then this off-season the club spent it's time promoting the ludicrous idea that all we needed was 'cover' for Long & Horne, three games in and that's already been proven to be a fallacy. We should have been throwing our money at Chase and Sammut way before we were worrying about signing up Westerman to play as yet another 2nd row.

Agar re-signed Yeaman ([urlhttp://www.hullfc.com/hullfc/contents/?p=5908[/url) and I agree, I dread to think what 'superstar' wages we are paying him.



Long has been a disaster, legend of the game...but he isn't going to be remembered for this 'blink and you'll miss him' stint at Hull.



Westerman has done nothing so far, and by all accounts didn't do anything for Cas last year either. Far to early to call him a success.



Radford would be ok as cheap backup for this year, but being a regular starter on a 2 year is ridiculous.



Dowes should have been thanked for his many years loyal service, paraded round the KC and pointed in the direction of the nearest Championship club.



of the others: Lauaki is yet another over hyped, overpaid waste. We've had 1 great performance (Saints away last year) and what else?



Moa, Fitz, O'Meley and Briscoe have been great signings, and his development of Houghton has been good. But that really is about all.

Yeaman took a pay cut on his new contract to stay with the club