But I didn't say that. I merely pointed out that the kind of thing mentioned would not be captured by statistics but has a big impact on the defensive effectiveness of a player. Hence my distrust of stats as an absolute measure.

I form my own opinion of players. If I'm going to be using subjective information, it might as well be from my own subjective viewpoint.

least you would agree with it then i guess. (or maybe not?)

Scientific training makes discussion with 'normals' difficult, as I discovered on the Sin Bin. They have a lot more faith (

) than us in FACTs.

Btw, do you ever find yourself using terms like 'order of magnitude' and 'confounding factors' in normal conversation?

Well they were fatigued from minute one on Sunday then. Top players should not always need telling what to do and when to do it. Take Wilkin on Sunday he did a fantastic job and I don't for one minute think it was down to the coach. It was down to his willingness to play a new position and play to the strengths he has.

When we kick downfield we often have a leisurely jog up, there is no urgency in our playwhatsoever and that is down to players being too much in their comfort zone.

We have zero enthusiasm in the side other than for the odd player and our players like to do just enough rather than psuhing themselves.

Doesnt a team tempo come from training at a tempo? Doesnt motivation come from our coach? Our management structure clearly isnt inspirational.

I noticed that too. Its so frustrating to see a kick go to waste on a leisurely jog up and noone putting the opposition under any pressure.

You wait till Friday we will be put under enormous pressure in this department. This EFFORT will be the difference between the two teams !

I would agree to some extent but you seem to be saying that the players can't think or motivate themselves and are like kids that need to be told what to do.

It seems to me on here that we must not slg off the like of Horne, Radford and Tickle etc but we can have open season on Agar.

The coach does have to take responsibility without question but so do the players.

Kear - sacked
Sharp - sacked
Agar - to be sacked??

Yet some of the players still remain, maybe they are the root of the problem.

Spot on Paul.

Paul Spot on what I was saying to me dad on sunday.

Thorman has been very poor for three successive matches. Richard Horne was much better in all three. Can't believe similarities are being made.

I, personally, would drop him for the Derby game and play Lee at 7. He had a cracker against Rovers last season. Don't think Agar will do this though, but if he has another poor game on Friday, he must be dropped for the Saints game, or its just saying there is no competition for places and you'll get played every week whatever.

agree Kear - sacked (rightly so) Blunt - sacked (rightly so) Agar - sacked ?? was never going to be the answer

and yet Radford, King, Lee, G Horne etc.. etc.. are all still here ????

Season after season of mediocrity and yet we just keep extended their contracts ??? WTF is going on at Hull ??

Who's to blame ?? JR ?? KH ?? both ?? or is it just the fact that the fans will relentlessly spend £££££££'s and ££££££'s on season passes, merchandise and matchdays however ordinary our squad is ???

The board knows that it can consistently take the pi$$ out of us whilst watching the money roll in and we will undoubtedly keep coming back for more.

Some of the players who cant stay off the booze before matches are definately the problem in my eyes.
Sends out an awful message to everyone !!