Agar needs to motivate and inspire in his Leadership/coaching. Where's the passion? he's a poor leader.

It cant be the gameplan that Thorman isn't allowed to throw a miss-out pass? Or a long flat pass to get it wider quicker? Or that his short kicks have to go to the wrong part of the in-goal area? TBH he is playing exactly like I expected him to, which is why I didn't want him in the first place but understood why the club took him for 1 year while they search for a genuine SH. If a genuine SH isn't signed for next season though I will be beyond P1ssed off

Where is the passion in anyone at our club, players and coaches. Players should not need too much motivating tbh, against Rovers we turned up for the last 25 mins and nearly won the bloody game

So it seems you think that Thorman is struggling because of the team's deficiencies and tactics, but Berrigan's hit and miss form is his own fault then?

Not sure that's fair TBH. Strikes me as expecting less from players because they simply aren't as good, despite the fact that it's just as much down to them to produce the goods.

Thorman has gone missing just as much as Berrigan so far this season, you can usually find him hiding half a dozen yards behind the forward at 1st receiver from the PTB. Regardless of ability, tactics, etc, I personally just think the supposed focal point of the team should be a little bit more keen to get involved.

Fact is if a player is in the "red zone" and sees an overlap he will probably do what his instincts tell him. Unfortunately Thormans instincts usually entail kicking it (because his passing is woeful) when its not on and consequently our players are not ready for it. I'd imagine the boring 5 drives and a kick stuff is for working the ball away from our line and they have more freedom nearer the try line, we just dont have the personnel to do it.

They have different jobs though. My expectations of Thorman are that he spreads the ball about and he is coached not to. My expectation of Berrigan is that he plays like the world class hooker that he is and that he inspires his team mates etc.

I od have different expectations of each player because one is an average 7 and one is one of the top 3 or 4 hookers in the world.

Ive watched Thormans stupid goal line kicks and cant defend them. I can understand why he does it because their outside defence has come up quickly thus stopping the long pass, he just doesnt execute the kicks well on occasions and his team mates dont seem to know what he is doing. The only issue i have is his execution of the play not his decision making in the situations youre mentioning.

The 5 drives and a kick is in our own half yes, in their half we go for 3 drives and 2 predictable tight in plays followed by a poor kick. I dont blame any of the players even if i expect more from some of them. The blame from me sits entirely with Agar/Sharp and their tactics.

Really have to disagree on that point. The tactics worked fine for the first 5 games of the season. Its the players application of the tactics that has led to the current situation. It might not be pretty but it can win games if executed properly. TBH that sort of attitude is possibly why the players think they can just go through the motions.

Or possibly the rest of SL now know our game plan, better than we do!

But both rely on the forwards giving them space to work in to produce their best. Berrigan can't run from dummy half with the speed of out ptb, so is also shafted by events beyond his control. His passing has been below par I'll admit, but to suggest Thorman's poor performances are because he is coached that way is not remotely accurate IMO. He doesn't have the passing game to spread it wide IMO, and the 1 thing he definitely is coached to be responsible for is our kicking game, which is still not up to scratch as far as I can see. He seems to make the decision to kick through on a whim, rather than what's going on around him.

As for inspiring your teammates I think that's irrelevant of being world class or not. Thorman was trumpeted as a great talker and organiser, I'd say that that role had at least as much responsibility to inspire the team as Berrigan, who seems to have been labelled as some sort of leadership figure based purely upon his playing abilities, and I'm not sure how that works, personally.

I'm just not on board with the seemingly 'he's $h1t, he can't help it' approach viewing him as less worthy of criticism, and palming it off onto coaches whilst feeling fine about ripping into those who are more capable. If anything, I view the fact that our coaches can't get the best out of a proven top-notch hooker as more evidence of their deficiencies than his.

Knowing a gameplan and stopping it are 2 different things. I agree its not pretty and its not what I would choose but it can be effective if everyone does their job properly which they clearly haven't for the last half a dozen games or so.

For me, that's one of the biggest problems with it. To stand a chance of winning the way we play you pretty much need all 17 players to put in a virtually flawless performance for 80 minutes. This is hard no matter how good the players are. Every team makes errors, but the likes of Saints and Leeds try those low percentage plays and pull them off often enough to cancel out theirs.

Once errors creep into our game we are then dependent upon our opponents making more than us to get back into it.

Manu to start from the bench!!!