I understand the point you are making, I just think it's invalid, he isn't good enough for Hull FC, that is a simple statement of the truth.

And what do they say to you. "Oh yes, you're absolutely right, he must have coached them to throw the ball, without looking, over his own try line so that unopposed Wigan players could choose which one of them should drop on it for an unopposed try?". Or do they say, on balance, there's a bit of both there: player errors and a coach still learning? I think the way the defence has improved over recent weeks is down to improvements in coaching but I feel the new grit is down to Fitz coming back in.

There isn't a cat in hell's chance of us making the Grand Final.

I agree the fact that you think that is a simple statement of the truth. However, I just think it's your opinion which you are perfectly entitled to have. I am just prepared to wait a few more matches before I agree with you.

sorry, Hull FC are a SUPER LEAGUE side, if he needs to learn he should be doing so in the National Leagues.

Would you get away with earning the top man wage but deliveringg an apprentice standard of work for so long?

Then I'll be expecting his departure. However, I won't be displaying any banners because I think he has done his best for the club he works for but just didn't get good enough quick enough.

I don't know if he is earning such a wage - I thought that was the fella across the river. The previous regime clearly were investing in him as a long-term project - much as he did with Moa (and that seems to have worked out well). As I say, my views were that this was his season. If he fails to make the GF then I'll be (a) sad that he didn't make the grade and (b) be happy to get a replacement as long as it's someone good. I don't see any new coaches coming from the lower leagues (do you?) so I guess he'll have to come from the Australian assistant pool.

I know. Don't take offense, I'm not having a pop, I'm just commenting on what you've stated on a public forum. I thought that was the point?



It's not the only thing, hence why I also mentioned other factors. It was the fact that you said he doesn't have the resources of others and specifically mentioned money and playing staff. The fact we spend the full cap and transfer fees shows that he has had the money to spend, and coupled with his 4-year tenure means that the quality of the playing staff is of his making. That's why I said it undermines your post, because you seem to have largely based it on 2 factors that are simply not true.



I don't think that last sentence is strictly true. I think some have said it in a sensationalist way simply because there is so little belief that there is even the remotest chance of it happening. Kind of an 'eat my hat' statement. My own opinion is that even if we make the playoffs and win a game, he should still go. If we make the GF I'll be astonished and honestly not know what to think.

All this cutting and pasting is doing my head in.

1. The opinion point - agreed (I was also agreeing with you)
2. This is not an academic paper. I wasn't expecting the Spanish Inquisition and so didn't try to cover off every point in the entire world - it was a general statement and I expected people on here to give some leeway in the name of debate.
3. Your last sentence about if we make the GF you won't know what to think leaves me a little dumfounded. Isn't a trip to the GF what we all want?

btw - when I posted (some months ago) that I wanted a major final appearance this year or it was time for Agar to go, I also said that the following year should include a win at a major final. We want continual improvement.

2. I'm all for leeway, I just genuinely don't see where you think Agar has had limitation in what he has to work with (other than training facilities, which I didn't challenge). The points about money and playing staff simply aren't true. As I said, we are one of those who spend full cap, and how many other coaches are backed with transfer fees? I did ask, what other resources do you think Agar needs to be given to reach his potential? IMO he's had just about everything going and certainly more than most, so any failings are his.

3. I wouldn't know what to think because I'd be very unsure as to whether or not we could repeat it with him, and I fear it would be taken as a sign that aiming for 6-8th and hoping for a playoff run is acceptable. I think it will be a moot point though, as I really can't see it happening.

I'm not saying he has had restrictions I am just saying that if you compare the playing roster you will see that the overall quality of teams (in fact let's talk "squad"icon_wink.gif in the upper echelons is higher than Hull - and that's because they have more than the cap at their fingertips. Therefore, Hull have been starting a couple of rungs further down the ladder and the previous regime opted for the approach of financial prudence and patience. If Pearson's money is used on "transfer fees" then the quality of the squad will rise hugely and I wonder how many of next year's recruits would not have made the grade. Add to that that Berrigan was allowed to leave, Tansey was sacked (and his replacement not only came late but then took a long time to get back to fitness) and Long was continually injured then the start of the season was somewhat disrupted. Look how Leeds floundered outside the top 8 without Peacock (as an example) - look at them now. I love the fact that people went on on here about another crap English coach but they have made a major final this year under him. Fact is, he needed his best players on the pitch.

I've tried to register a couple of times and on both occasions I've not be sent an activation email. Think I'll have to contact the club because I must doing something wrong on the application process. Friday nights for me, causes me less family disruption but that will change to Sundays when my daughter gets older and grows out of booting the seat in front of her during the game.

1. What do you mean by 'more than the cap'?
2. If the quality of the squad will rise hugely by Pearson spending transfer fees, why hasn't it when the previous board did? Or are you suggesting Pearson spend a lot of money on several players in the same close season?
3. The Tansey situation was unfortunate, but hardly unforeseeable. I suspect Berrigan was the same, I very much doubt he waited until a week before leaving to let the club know that he wanted out.
4. Partly agree about Long, but after last season we all knew his fitness was a concern. Agar still didn't bring halfback cover in until Wakey's trouble practically dropped one in his lap.

1. I mean that it is entirely plausible that there is more going on in the background at clubs like Warrington that means they have a much higher quality squad than the pure cap would allow.
2. I think Tansey, Westerman, Turner, Ellis [iet al [/iwere key British signings at a time (before Crusaders' demise) that we expected the quota to become much more restirctive in the future and, therefore, were worth spending money on. I think they were canny signings for the future but they are not the highest quality players now. Warrington keep poaching Salford's best players because they have the money to do so and they will be good enough to walk into the first team (would Tansey, Turner, Ellis and Westerman walk into Warrington's team?). Now Hull has that kind of money so I expect a different approach when bringing players in. Which is why I wonder if Hull would have recruited McKinnon, Heremaia and Seymour etc if Pearson had owned the club at that time. So, yes, Agar has "his team" but it is still not as good as the top four teams.
3. Whether your suspicions are right or wrong does not take away from the fact that Hull were left with no replacements and with no time to find one. That meant that Agar's squad was depleted in key areas and there was no-one to come into the team. Sometimes, circumstance/happenstance/whatever you want to call it does play a part even if we don't want it to.
4. Agar had a great understudy to Long who played in the pre-season friendly - unfortunatley he suffered a long-term injury so when Long was injured Nicklas couoldn't step into his shoes and develop. Imagine how he might have come on this year. I think Nicklas was ready to start making the step-up and that was why he was a full tiem squad member.

btw - thanks for the discussion. I have to go and pack now and start my journey to work which is why I entirely selfishly voted for Friday rugby. I'd love to sit in the warmth of a balmy summer Sunday and watch the team but until I get a job nearer home I'll keep voting that way.