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perhaps he'll get an asbo - not to go near ink for 2 years

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Quote: the artist "perhaps he'll get an asbo - not to go near ink for 2 years'"


and it would still leave a stain on his reputation.

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Quote: Standee "Well, he did what he has admitted in the early part of 2009, so the rest of his suspended will be about 12 months, if that is to run con-currently to 13 counts of fraud then 3 years is about right, our after 18 months.

Bear in mind he hasn't been on remand either, which you and I would have been for the same offences.'"


What are you implying there? I can assure you he would not have had any preferential treatment because he was a RL player.
I would imagine that he will get about 15 months for this to run concurrently with his 18 month suspended sentence. So in all 9 months inside and back for next season.

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Having read through this thread its interesting to see what some people feel about fraud. Its not the most glamourous of crimes for the ol bill to investigate. It is often I am told just ignored and people manage to get away with it. BUT lets just think about this one for a moment.

He was charged with multiple counts of fraud. Not massive figures but £30k+ over a period of time takes planning. This was not just a one off moment of rule bending. He clearly knew exactly what he was doing and was reaping the rewards.
Imagine if you were one of the victims. You enter a "safe respectable" web site. You pay for what you believe are genuine goods but then discover you are ripped off. That could have been your only disposable income for the month. Now lost. You might have been saving for it for months. Now lost. Psycologically it can effect people massively as much as a burglary / robbery etc.
Ok not a physical attack which people can see and feel sympathy but it really can effect people. Now is he a danger to society?
So we have a pre planned opertaion which deliberately sets out to steal off victims. I am sure that there will have been many more ripped off than he has actually been charged with. If he is "let off" with a suspended again ( which he will not be as his other suspended will be invoked I am certain of that) then the message will go out that you can commit fraud and get away with it.
Get away from this being victimless and think more in terms of the planning needed to do this.

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Quote: hfc herts "Having read through this thread its interesting to see what some people feel about fraud. Its not the most glamourous of crimes for the ol bill to investigate. It is often I am told just ignored and people manage to get away with it. BUT lets just think about this one for a moment.

He was charged with multiple counts of fraud. Not massive figures but £30k+ over a period of time takes planning. This was not just a one off moment of rule bending. He clearly knew exactly what he was doing and was reaping the rewards.
Imagine if you were one of the victims. You enter a "safe respectable" web site. You pay for what you believe are genuine goods but then discover you are ripped off. That could have been your only disposable income for the month. Now lost. You might have been saving for it for months. Now lost. Psycologically it can effect people massively as much as a burglary / robbery etc.
Ok not a physical attack which people can see and feel sympathy but it really can effect people. Now is he a danger to society?
So we have a pre planned opertaion which deliberately sets out to steal off victims. I am sure that there will have been many more ripped off than he has actually been charged with. If he is "let off" with a suspended again ( which he will not be as his other suspended will be invoked I am certain of that) then the message will go out that you can commit fraud and get away with it.
Get away from this being victimless and think more in terms of the planning needed to do this.'"


As much as I'm sure buying a dodgy ink cartridge for my printer could be a traumatic event, it's preferable in my book to being kicked repeatedly in the head whilst I lay defenceless on the ground.

I don't condone what raynor has done but it's an indication of the current state of our society that he will probably be serving time whilst cockayne will be plying his trade at caravan park

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Quote: Jake the Peg "As much as I'm sure buying a dodgy ink cartridge for my printer could be a traumatic event, it's preferable in my book to being kicked repeatedly in the head whilst I lay defenceless on the ground.

I don't condone what raynor has done but it's an indication of the current state of our society that he will probably be serving time whilst cockayne will be plying his trade at caravan park'"


I don't dispute your comments. I was talking generally about fraud. An offence which unless is committed by some big time charlie banker is often dismissed by the general public as victimless and non threatening.
Equally to compare Raynor's current offending with a certain player from the dark sides offending is really a non arguement.
It is not something that is exclusive to RL players as some think on here. What we see as miscarriages of justice from reading papers and the media etc are decisions taken by judges who we as society have entrusted with that decision.
History is littered with murders "getting away with it" and thieves being banged up for years. To the lay person it does not seem reasonable but thats the system we operate and in all honesty it is one of the better ones in the world.
I am sure Raynors defence will not be you can't send me to prison as Cockayne and Cooke were spared prison. Or at least I hope it isn't.

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Quote: trys'r'us "I'm not sure it's quite as open and shut as that. There is some room for manoeuvre, I believe.

I can't really disagree with any of that. I'm just not sure him deserving to be imprisoned completely vindicates him being imprisoned when there are other options available that would probably offer more to society.'"



it makes me wonder wot his brief is doing he should of put all the blame on her indoors ,"shes the mastermind i new nowt yur honour " she wouldnt of got bird for this ,familys income saved, slap over wrist for her ,lol even better if she gt 3 months party time for Gareth icon_biggrin.gif

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Quote: hfc herts "Equally to compare Raynor's current offending with a certain player from the dark sides offending is really a non arguement.
.'"


Why is it a non argument?

The punishment should fit the crime IMO. raynor should be made to pay back every penny he's taken, plus a punitive fine, whereas violent offenders should be locked up so they're no longer a danger to the public

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TBF I cant see Raynor being sent down, probably pleaded guilty as a deal been struck with CPS. Even the though he has frauded more than £30K just cant see him being sent down for that, had he not paid his council tax then most certainly.
Big fine, many hours of community service and another slap on the wrist as punishment of crime in this country leaves alot to be desired at times.

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Sky Sports news reported that Raynor 'masterminded' the whole scam! My god, that is amasing as he comes across as not having a brain cell at all.

He has to go down for this because HE'S BROKEN THE LAW! How on earth Cockayne managed to escape bird is beyond me, but lets hope the system makes Raynor pay for his constant disrespect of the law.

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Quote: GM1 "Sky Sports news reported that Raynor 'masterminded' the whole scam! My god, that is amasing as he comes across as not having a brain cell at all.

He has to go down for this because HE'S BROKEN THE LAW! How on earth Cockayne managed to escape bird is beyond me, but lets hope the system makes Raynor pay for his constant disrespect of the law.'"



thats why he should have blamed the Mrs ,hed have walked for sure icon_wink.gif

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Quote: Jake the Peg "Why is it a non argument?

The punishment should fit the crime IMO. raynor should be made to pay back every penny he's taken, plus a punitive fine, whereas violent offenders should be locked up so they're no longer a danger to the public'"

And had the fraud case been an isolated event I'd agree with you. But as AA has pointed out, he has a suspended sentence from an earlier crime that would normally have resulted (correctly IMO) in imprisonment. He's breached the conditions of that arrangement and has to be seen to pay the price for doing so.

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Quote: GM1 "Sky Sports news reported that Raynor 'masterminded' the whole scam! My god, that is amasing as he comes across as not having a brain cell at all.

'"


Thats why he got caught!! icon_lol.gif

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Quote: GM1 "Sky Sports news reported that Raynor 'masterminded' the whole scam! '"


While stroking a white cat and trading banter with James Bond, no doubt

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Quote: Jake the Peg "As much as I'm sure buying a dodgy ink cartridge for my printer could be a traumatic event, it's preferable in my book to being kicked repeatedly in the head whilst I lay defenceless on the ground.

I don't condone what raynor has done but it's an indication of the current state of our society that he will probably be serving time whilst cockayne will be plying his trade at caravan park'"


I don't know if you remember, but Raynor, like Cockayne, has also escaped prison for a violent offence. That he is now likely to serve a custodial sentence for fraud says more about his own stupidity than it does the 'state of our society'.

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