Lee hasnt played halfback this season.

Thorman has created more this season than Tommy has ever done, Thorman kicking game is far better than lee's.

Lee is too slow with his decsion making and too big to play 7, his future should be in the pack, otherwise he will be playing NL in a couple of years.

I don't agree to this theory about Lee being stifled. To an extent maybe but he showed glimspes of real class now and again at 7. So when did produce these moments was it the coach giving him the nod or was he disobeying orders. I can't imagine a coach saying don't be creative to his SH.

The biggest problem is lazy players not pushing on every play, that would make our SH's job much easier but I can't see it changing with our playing personel.

He isnt given much by Agar.

Ive heard a little rumour that Horne will be FB anyway with Thorman still at 7. Its all about the gameplan for me, Thorman is a shoe in for the 7 shirt every game. We've got nothing else.

Where is it then? His kicking has been awful IMO. For someone with his experience he takes the wrong option so many times its just not funny. Thorman makes exactly the same mistakes Lee was making last season and is probably even worse for kicking early in the takle count when its just not on. I'm not for a minute suggesting Lee is a 7 (probably more of a 9/13 than anything) but Thorman was been worse than ordinary this season apart from 1 decent game at Bradford.

Whilst I agree to an extent his all round game has been really poor IMO. His passing is slow and is literally to the nearest man everytime. His long kicking has been no better than we have had for the last 10 years and his short kicking is more about luck than judgement, I'd say R.Horne has a better short kicking game.

I think its difficult to say tbh when the teams overall tactics are poor. We mis-use our forwards which means they cant lay the platform. We have an international hooker that plays for 10 minutes and then goes missing for 70. We have excellent outside backs that dont see the ball. We've scored a lot of tries from Thorman and Hornes short kicking game early in the season. We make too many mistakes meaning Thorman has to kick too often from deep. I think personally if Agar gets his tactics right we will see the best of Thorman. I saw enough of him early in the season to know that he isnt fantastic but he can do a job for us and we can challenge. Matthew Head and Adam Dykes both looked great when doing the basic easy things well, like passing it wide to Manu and Yeaman. Thorman can do that easily too but needs to be part of the game plan.

When we are on our game in the fowards then the halves and backs can score tries and be creative, the Cats and Bulls game showed that. Trouble is when we are not on our game we have nobody to try and lift and inspire the side and we are then bloody rubbish.

Agar needs to motivate and inspire in his Leadership/coaching. Where's the passion? he's a poor leader.

It cant be the gameplan that Thorman isn't allowed to throw a miss-out pass? Or a long flat pass to get it wider quicker? Or that his short kicks have to go to the wrong part of the in-goal area? TBH he is playing exactly like I expected him to, which is why I didn't want him in the first place but understood why the club took him for 1 year while they search for a genuine SH. If a genuine SH isn't signed for next season though I will be beyond P1ssed off

Where is the passion in anyone at our club, players and coaches. Players should not need too much motivating tbh, against Rovers we turned up for the last 25 mins and nearly won the bloody game

So it seems you think that Thorman is struggling because of the team's deficiencies and tactics, but Berrigan's hit and miss form is his own fault then?

Not sure that's fair TBH. Strikes me as expecting less from players because they simply aren't as good, despite the fact that it's just as much down to them to produce the goods.

Thorman has gone missing just as much as Berrigan so far this season, you can usually find him hiding half a dozen yards behind the forward at 1st receiver from the PTB. Regardless of ability, tactics, etc, I personally just think the supposed focal point of the team should be a little bit more keen to get involved.

Fact is if a player is in the "red zone" and sees an overlap he will probably do what his instincts tell him. Unfortunately Thormans instincts usually entail kicking it (because his passing is woeful) when its not on and consequently our players are not ready for it. I'd imagine the boring 5 drives and a kick stuff is for working the ball away from our line and they have more freedom nearer the try line, we just dont have the personnel to do it.

They have different jobs though. My expectations of Thorman are that he spreads the ball about and he is coached not to. My expectation of Berrigan is that he plays like the world class hooker that he is and that he inspires his team mates etc.

I od have different expectations of each player because one is an average 7 and one is one of the top 3 or 4 hookers in the world.