so every body just watches one player have a bad game its a team game.. the all team on Sunday were Shi-- ..We only played for about 15 minutes to rate anybody I would find its hard to give anybody more then 5 out of ten.. and the 5 is for them going onto the pitch ..before people have a go ..I have got my tickets for the Saints game on Monday ..When we get beat I don't put defeat down to individuals

Again Horne was equally as bad, but no thread or slagging him off on here!

Funny that eh.

Thorman seems to be the new whipping boy, bet Tommy Lee is happy though

Thorman seems to be doing at decent job the job I thought he would do, nobody was slagging him off until we get beat.

Not many halfbacks can play well behind a beaten pack and thats what has been happening the last few games.

Ok his kicking has been a bit hit and miss and he has made a few mistakes, but who hasnt in the last couple of games.

A number of times on Sunday he had plenty of time to pick his spot with his mid range kicks only to find a Salford player on the full. He has to improve this and his decision making under pressure. By no means Hull's main problem though as some have suggested.

There may be no thread, but any number of people have mentioned that Horne isn't playing well.

Anyway - do you really expect a rational discussion of individual players on here?

Im not starting on this again, im laughing at your post saying that stats are captured subjectives but you'd rather believe other sources of information such as what people see and hear which are far more subjective. Was a bit of an odd statement to be honest when you start talking subjectivity of stats.

Cos the mistakes we make look down to fatigue, thats not their fault (other than the ones on the booze the night before)

When we have the ball in hand we have some of the best players going, we just dont use them. Our boring 5 drives and a kick is knackering our forwards stopping them winning the collision and putting us under more pressure. We only use 9 or 10 interchanges and arent smart with the ones we make. The players occasionally take the wrong option, Thorman for example is being slated for one poor kick and other than that he played to Agars tight tactics.

Its Agars fault for either setting the wrong tactics or not getting the message out to play to the correct tactics during the last handful of games, as well as using his interchanges poorly. He looks clueless.

But I didn't say that. I merely pointed out that the kind of thing mentioned would not be captured by statistics but has a big impact on the defensive effectiveness of a player. Hence my distrust of stats as an absolute measure.

I form my own opinion of players. If I'm going to be using subjective information, it might as well be from my own subjective viewpoint.

Scientific training makes discussion with 'normals' difficult, as I discovered on the Sin Bin. They have a lot more faith (

Well they were fatigued from minute one on Sunday then. Top players should not always need telling what to do and when to do it. Take Wilkin on Sunday he did a fantastic job and I don't for one minute think it was down to the coach. It was down to his willingness to play a new position and play to the strengths he has.

When we kick downfield we often have a leisurely jog up, there is no urgency in our playwhatsoever and that is down to players being too much in their comfort zone.

We have zero enthusiasm in the side other than for the odd player and our players like to do just enough rather than psuhing themselves.

Doesnt a team tempo come from training at a tempo? Doesnt motivation come from our coach? Our management structure clearly isnt inspirational.

I noticed that too. Its so frustrating to see a kick go to waste on a leisurely jog up and noone putting the opposition under any pressure.

You wait till Friday we will be put under enormous pressure in this department. This EFFORT will be the difference between the two teams !