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[b:1qjrv4c0][u:1qjrv4c0]HULL F.C[/u:1qjrv4c0][/b:1qjrv4c0] [color=#000000:1qjrv4c0]It's in my blood, It's in my heart[/color:1qjrv4c0] [color=#FFBF00:1qjrv4c0][u:1qjrv4c0][b:1qjrv4c0]OLD FAITHFUL, WE'VE GONE AND WON AT WEMBLEY [/b:1qjrv4c0][/u:1qjrv4c0][/color:1qjrv4c0] [color=#000000:1qjrv4c0][b:1qjrv4c0][u:1qjrv4c0] Offy The Armchair Supporter :([/u:1qjrv4c0][/b:1qjrv4c0][/color:1qjrv4c0]:simpsons/PDT2.gif



Rankin was dropped, no injury

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Quote: Chris28 "Finding little to disagree with through the whole thread , but I'm not sure what the answer is.

On Friday we missed tackles, left gaps you could drive a bus through, had little clue with the ball in hand and capitulated. AGAIN. Yet only a few weeks previously we played the 2013 league leaders off the park. It's either rocks (more) or diamonds (less) and the blame for that lies equally (IMO) with the players and the coach.

The players are either not bothered, unable to understand or play to the game plan (or unwilling to), or just not good enough. There is little or no off the cuff play as we don't have that kind of flair player now. For all that he's playing well and is currently the heartbeat of the team, Westy is pretty much playing as a battering ram, spinning into the tackle and looking for an offload or a break. Its becoming as predictable as Tickle's drop off back into the ruck last year and beyond. Miller moves across the line looking for a runner and most of the backs seem to be having a cig behind the posts. We get good go forward from the forwards (often playing one out rugby again), but rarely struggle to get up in the tackle, letting the defence dictate. In defence we still wait for the attack to come at us instead of getting in their faces. Teams like Saints and Leeds will have a field day with so much space. Its been like that for as long as I can remember too. My personal view is that Miller and Rankin are the short term future for us, but they are inconsistent and only played inconsistently (has anyone yet confirmed that Rankin was injured on Friday?). Only Ellis really seems to be on Miller's wavelength when he has the ball and we all know why that is.

We've also gone back to the "heads down when we go behind" mentality and there doesn't appear to be a leader on the field reading the riot act or geeing them up when it does happen. It is so frustrating to see - one try can quickly become 2 or 3 because the response is all wrong.

The coach hasn't proved that he was the right person for the job yet either. His preseason was baffling. His chopping and changing of the side has meant a lack of consistency in our starting side and I wonder if this is good for the players. I'm still struggling to understand why the coach that got us to the cup final was unceremoniously dumped like he was (in 2008 we didn't even get to the playoffs yet Agar stayed). Yes I'm a Gentle fan, but accept he's gone and we have to deal with what we have. So, why do the players not respond to the coach's game plan? What has happened to the "bawling out/arm around the shoulder" approach to players? Is it actually doing anything? Ben Crooks seemed to benefit from this approach when he was sent to Donny, but went backwards on Friday. Another trip down the M18? And why so soon?

I seriously think a sports psychologist is at least part of the answer to our issues. Leeds were always the bridesmaids, consistently good but always falling at the final hurdle. In comes the psychologist and bingo, more grand finals than you can shake a stick at. Consistently good became consistently successful. A team to fear in terms of potential performances. We need help to become consistently good and then who knows...

On Friday we had the wings so compressed in that Wigan were running outside us all night. It was like the Agar days again. Why? Have we learnt nothing? I presume we're training the house down again
For a start,we're not on a level playing field, compared to Wigan/Leeds, they are superiorly mentally & physically prepared
to what we are.

Fans believe, that if we sign this player,release that player is the answer, it is not - it is temporary fix to a long term problem.

Until we address our problems,(mentality, physical & skills ), our problems will continue to exist.

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Quote: Chris28 "Finding little to disagree with through the whole thread , but I'm not sure what the answer is.

On Friday we missed tackles, left gaps you could drive a bus through, had little clue with the ball in hand and capitulated. AGAIN. Yet only a few weeks previously we played the 2013 league leaders off the park. It's either rocks (more) or diamonds (less) and the blame for that lies equally (IMO) with the players and the coach.

The players are either not bothered, unable to understand or play to the game plan (or unwilling to), or just not good enough. There is little or no off the cuff play as we don't have that kind of flair player now. For all that he's playing well and is currently the heartbeat of the team, Westy is pretty much playing as a battering ram, spinning into the tackle and looking for an offload or a break. Its becoming as predictable as Tickle's drop off back into the ruck last year and beyond. Miller moves across the line looking for a runner and most of the backs seem to be having a cig behind the posts. We get good go forward from the forwards (often playing one out rugby again), but rarely struggle to get up in the tackle, letting the defence dictate. In defence we still wait for the attack to come at us instead of getting in their faces. Teams like Saints and Leeds will have a field day with so much space. Its been like that for as long as I can remember too. My personal view is that Miller and Rankin are the short term future for us, but they are inconsistent and only played inconsistently (has anyone yet confirmed that Rankin was injured on Friday?). Only Ellis really seems to be on Miller's wavelength when he has the ball and we all know why that is.

We've also gone back to the "heads down when we go behind" mentality and there doesn't appear to be a leader on the field reading the riot act or geeing them up when it does happen. It is so frustrating to see - one try can quickly become 2 or 3 because the response is all wrong.

The coach hasn't proved that he was the right person for the job yet either. His preseason was baffling. His chopping and changing of the side has meant a lack of consistency in our starting side and I wonder if this is good for the players. I'm still struggling to understand why the coach that got us to the cup final was unceremoniously dumped like he was (in 2008 we didn't even get to the playoffs yet Agar stayed). Yes I'm a Gentle fan, but accept he's gone and we have to deal with what we have. So, why do the players not respond to the coach's game plan? What has happened to the "bawling out/arm around the shoulder" approach to players? Is it actually doing anything? Ben Crooks seemed to benefit from this approach when he was sent to Donny, but went backwards on Friday. Another trip down the M18? And why so soon?

I seriously think a sports psychologist is at least part of the answer to our issues. Leeds were always the bridesmaids, consistently good but always falling at the final hurdle. In comes the psychologist and bingo, more grand finals than you can shake a stick at. Consistently good became consistently successful. A team to fear in terms of potential performances. We need help to become consistently good and then who knows...

On Friday we had the wings so compressed in that Wigan were running outside us all night. It was like the Agar days again. Why? Have we learnt nothing? I presume we're training the house down again
That is one of the best posts I have ever read Chris. Outstanding summary.

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Quote: Doc Brown "I don't know what the answer is to these but agree that if it is the Radford scenario that it is misguided. With AP I'd be inclined to say that it was also a misguided thing rather than anything misleading. He has invested in the club and improved facilities. Maybe he feels that is enough or was advised by someone that there is no need for a large backroom staff. I don't think it's a case of him hoping that the fans don't notice. If that was the case would the club go to the bother of listing the coaching staff on the website?

The funny thing is that we probably wouldn't be having this discussion if things were going better than they are at the moment. But we're all feeling low about how the season is going so far and we're looking for answers on how things could improve. And we're starting to look beyond just questioning the players attitudes and their abilities or the quality of our coach.'"


True but even if we were in the top 4 one thing you could guarantee is the difference between our best and worst performance would still be huge. There is just such a lack of consistency that so many coaches have had a go at changing, all have failed. However long you spend on a training field doesn't make up for proper nutritional and mental preparation. It is all I can see that hasn't been looked at.

Out of interest does anybody know who looks after diet and nutrition, is it just the strength and conditioning coach, Sean Rush, because if so its just to big a job for one man. Correct nutrition can have such a bearing on more than physical performance, without proper balanced diets at correct times things like mental fatigue plays a massive role. For example our two poorest performance this year have come on a Sunday, are diets and supplementation being monitored, or do we just eat the same way all week, which works better for Friday nights rather than Sunday's.

Sean Rush from what I understand has a history in football, has he any knowledge in the different preparation needed in RL, if FC bothered to fill in his bio on the website I would have more idea.

I could go on and on with questions I have regarding the preparation of the team, which all points to FC doing it on the cheap.

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Quote: Offy "Rankin was dropped, no injury'"


This one absolutely baffled me last week and Radford doesn't come out of it with any credit in my eyes when I try to figure out his reasoning.

Was Rankin dropped for poor form? There were other players that should have been ahead of him for the chop.
Did Radford feel Horne was the better option on Friday? If so then it was a tactical error on his part. Horne was poor. I'm not saying that Rankin would have done better but I don't think he would have done any worse.

Whatever Radford's reasons though it seems to be yet another bit of squad tinkering. Gentle was criticised last year for having different tactics every week instead of settled tactics. This is just as bad IMO.

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Quote: FCFaithful Stu "True but even if we were in the top 4 one thing you could guarantee is the difference between our best and worst performance would still be huge. There is just such a lack of consistency that so many coaches have had a go at changing, all have failed. However long you spend on a training field doesn't make up for proper nutritional and mental preparation. It is all I can see that hasn't been looked at.

Out of interest does anybody know who looks after diet and nutrition, is it just the strength and conditioning coach, Sean Rush, because if so its just to big a job for one man. Correct nutrition can have such a bearing on more than physical performance, without proper balanced diets at correct times things like mental fatigue plays a massive role. For example our two poorest performance this year have come on a Sunday, are diets and supplementation being monitored, or do we just eat the same way all week, which works better for Friday nights rather than Sunday's.

Sean Rush from what I understand has a history in football, has he any knowledge in the different preparation needed in RL, if FC bothered to fill in his bio on the website I would have more idea.

I could go on and on with questions I have regarding the preparation of the team, which all points to FC doing it on the cheap.'"

All these things should have been started during pre season, its hard to believe that a squad of 30 have so few people looking after them physically and mentally, I cant imagine things changing half way through the season, unless a new coach comes in and as team of people he brings with him! Season over, can we start on the rumours thread now!

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Quote: Doc Brown "Was Rankin dropped for poor form? There were other players that should have been ahead of him for the chop.
Did Radford feel Horne was the better option on Friday? If so then it was a tactical error on his part. Horne was poor.'"
Easy to say after the match. Horne was as bad as everyone else - not what you might have expected, to be fair.

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Quote: Tinkerman23 "All these things should have been started during pre season, its hard to believe that a squad of 30 have so few people looking after them physically and mentally, I cant imagine things changing half way through the season, unless a new coach comes in and as team of people he brings with him! Season over, can we start on the rumours thread now!'"



Exactly, they should start before pre-season where each player is given a diet and supplementation plan tailored to the needs of that player, that they have been following before they report back.

I wasn't really saying sack the coach and all this will improve. More asking why we aren't well staffed or experienced in this area, we are a professional sports club after all, if you don't look after your players then what do you have.

A further question I have never understood, as far as I am aware we never train at 20:00 the night before an evening game. The so called Captains run. I don't think we ever train on an evening under flood lights. Therefore in February and March when it is dark by 17:00 how stupid does it seem we haven't trained under those conditions.

We honestly portray the image of a SL club on a championship budget.

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Quote: FCFaithful Stu "Exactly, they should start before pre-season where each player is given a diet and supplementation plan tailored to the needs of that player, that they have been following before they report back.

I wasn't really saying sack the coach and all this will improve. More asking why we aren't well staffed or experienced in this area, we are a professional sports club after all, if you don't look after your players then what do you have.

A further question I have never understood, as far as I am aware we never train at 20Of course, nobody really knows if any of the above isn't actually happening - so let's assume the worst, as always.

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In The Dugout bar before the game, Rankin said he'd been carrying an ankle injury since the Huddersfield game and shrugged off his dropping by saying it would be good to have a week off to get the ankle right.
The way he was prowling the touchline spoke volumes to me. He was mighty d off to be dropped. Rightly so, when you look at Mr Experience Horne's display.

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Quote: ccs "Easy to say after the match. Horne was as bad as everyone else - not what you might have expected, to be fair.'"


It is easy to say after the match but I was questioning dropping Rankin on here prior to the game as well. I'm not the coach though, Radford is and he needs to get these decisions right if he wants to succeed. Admittedly not even the best coach in the world will get it right all the time but right now Radford seems very hit and miss with his tactical selections.

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Quote: Diablo1967 "In The Dugout bar before the game, Rankin said he'd been carrying an ankle injury since the Huddersfield game and shrugged off his dropping by saying it would be good to have a week off to get the ankle right.
The way he was prowling the touchline spoke volumes to me. He was mighty d off to be dropped. Rightly so, when you look at Mr Experience Horne's display.'"
So you didn't believe what he told you, but made up your own version afterwards.

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Quote: ccs "Of course, nobody really knows if any of the above isn't actually happening - so let's assume the worst, as always.'"



So if Wigan deem it necessary to have a back room staff more than twice the size of FC's to look after 17 players that take the pitch against 17 of our players we should just think they that's Wigan we will be OK doing it our way.

Not being negative just asking questions, a team of young blokes made seasoned experienced professionals look slow, lacking in energy, lacking in motivation, lacking in skill and worse of all lacking in hunger to win on Friday. I know which coaching team I would want to train under.

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[b:16wvcohs]"To play your best football you need players with enthusiasm and drive and energy." - [i:16wvcohs]Peter Sterling[/i:16wvcohs][/b:16wvcohs] [quote="Adam Pearson said not":16wvcohs][b:16wvcohs]I know there are two franchises and two clubs (in Hull) and that will remain forever more[/b:16wvcohs][/quote:16wvcohs]:d7dc4b20b2c2dd7b76ac6eac29d5604e_12839.png



Quote: FCFaithful Stu "So if Wigan deem it necessary to have a back room staff more than twice the size of FC's to look after 17 players that take the pitch against 17 of our players we should just think they that's Wigan we will be OK doing it our way.

Not being negative just asking questions, a team of young blokes made seasoned experienced professionals look slow, lacking in energy, lacking in motivation, lacking in skill and worse of all lacking in hunger to win on Friday. I know which coaching team I would want to train under.'"


For balance Wigan also had Mcilorum, Smith and Green as three of their four 'spine' players. Any or all of those players would walk into our first team with their eyes shut as each of them is way better than the equivalent incumbent in our team.

This talk of sports science is interesting and despite not really knowing the actual facts about staffing levels at Hull I think there is definitely some ground that we can make up there. What worries me far more is the physical difference between Wigan's young players and ours. I haven't been to U19s this season as I can't justify the travel required, however I did go to the Fev friendly where many of our youngsters figured. The difference in physicality and fitness between what I saw from our youngsters then and what I saw on Friday from Wigan can be measured in light years.

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Quote: FCFaithful Stu "So if Wigan deem it necessary to have a back room staff more than twice the size of FC's to look after 17 players that take the pitch against 17 of our players we should just think they that's Wigan we will be OK doing it our way.

Not being negative just asking questions, a team of young blokes made seasoned experienced professionals look slow, lacking in energy, lacking in motivation, lacking in skill and worse of all lacking in hunger to win on Friday. I know which coaching team I would want to train under.'"
All I'm saying is establishing staffing levels using the club's website is unlikely to give you an accurate comparison.

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Sun 23rd Feb
SL
14:30
Leigh-Huddersfield
Thu 6th Mar
SL
20:00
Hull FC-Leigh
Fri 7th Mar
SL
20:00
Castleford-Salford
SL
20:00
St.Helens-Hull KR
Sat 8th Mar
SL
17:30
Catalans-Leeds
Sun 9th Mar
SL
17:30
Warrington-Wakefield
SL
17:30
Wigan-Huddersfield
Thu 20th Mar
SL
20:00
Salford-Huddersfield
Fri 21st Mar
SL
20:00
St.Helens-Warrington
This is an inplay table and live positions can change.
Mens Betfred Super League XXVIII ROUND : 1
 PLDFADIFFPTS
Wigan 29 768 338 430 48
Hull KR 29 731 344 387 44
Warrington 29 769 351 418 42
Leigh 29 580 442 138 33
Salford 28 556 561 -5 32
St.Helens 28 618 411 207 30
 
Catalans 27 475 427 48 30
Leeds 27 530 488 42 28
Huddersfield 27 468 658 -190 20
Castleford 27 425 735 -310 15
Hull FC 27 328 894 -566 6
LondonB 27 317 916 -599 6
This is an inplay table and live positions can change.
Betfred Championship 2024 ROUND : 1
 PLDFADIFFPTS
Wakefield 27 1032 275 757 52
Toulouse 26 765 388 377 37
Bradford 28 723 420 303 36
York 29 695 501 194 32
Widnes 27 561 502 59 29
Featherstone 27 634 525 109 28
 
Sheffield 26 626 526 100 28
Doncaster 26 498 619 -121 25
Halifax 26 509 650 -141 22
Batley 26 422 591 -169 22
Swinton 28 484 676 -192 20
Barrow 25 442 720 -278 19
Whitehaven 25 437 826 -389 18
Dewsbury 27 348 879 -531 4
Hunslet 1 6 10 -4 0
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