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FORUMS > Hull FC > City, should we be concerned?
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I'm sure Labour would like the money (who wouldn't) but I'm equally sure that they won't be doing anything before the election with regards to indulging Dr Philanthropist's agenda over the SMC. Imagine if they did, it would 24 carat gold for their opponents, "businessman buys off council to shaft community venue" headlines. And that's without getting into whole political minefield of Labour funding by Unions or business or the (surely very slight) possibility that there would be other strings attache to Dr Philanthropist's donation.

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Quote: The Dentist Wilf "Beat me to it the Council is a MCS says just in the process of handing over all its facilities and putting them in the hands of an arms length company it has set up which will run them all to council policies on equality, access for all etc. That's the ideal place for the Stadium management to be positioned.'"


I think there is an awful lot to be said for public control of public assets. Ultimately it is the public that bears any risk. Commercial entities are interested in profit (naturally enough) and when the prospect of those disappear, so do they. Public-private partnerships are poor de risking strategies, IMO.

How does this 'arms length' company thing work? Is it publically owned? Does it limit public liability?

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Its the same as the one that ran property maintenance at the Council many councils use them to offset direct costs and they are run as a company with Directors etc. They are not set up to earn a profit though which is the difference to a normal external company and as this one is to run theatres, halls, museums, sports centres, swimming facilities etc, (some of which are free of charge and others of which are subsidised) the council will pay them a fee to run the facilities with the company instead managing all the on costs setting the wage scales etc which is easier for a 'commercial' company to do compared with a burocracy. It is I think set up by the 'company' as a charitable trust which again brings big savings compared with an orgamisation inside the fabric of the council. Think that's it anyway!

ccs
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Loads of info about the new council company if you google "leisure company site:hullcc.gov.uk"

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Quote: ccs "Loads of info about the new council company if you google "leisure company site
Thanks for that, it would appear that there was no thought about the KC coming under control by this new company in 2013 as it is not listed in the appendix. rlLeisure company business case pdfrl
I would think we'd all know about it if the council had added on the stadium & was planning to take control through this organisation as it would have to be included in the business model.
Despite what that bit of paper says & everything else regarding what the council are allowed to do (or what they might/might not act on) they would find it nigh on impossible to wrestle back control of the stadium. You think Allam would sit back and just say okay, you've got me, have it back.. icon_biggrin.gif

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Quote: Mild Rover "]I don't think anyone is that mithered by the lack of a return. The fear is more that it could cost the council a significant amount of money to run and maintain. The risk of that being the (IMO slightly dubious) rationale for an SMC in the first place, i assume.
How significant that risk is, basically determines how strong a hand Allam has.

As a return isn't expected on the KC, a peppercorn rental agreement, with Hull Fc and Hull City taking direct responsibility for maintenance and running costs might indeed be a sensible approach.
This would, as it does across the City, mitigate the risk borne by the community, give Hull FC greater control and relieve Allam of the responsibility he finds so burdensome. A 3-way win!
Er, hello?! icon_lol.gif icon_lol.gif
www.hulldailymail.co.uk/Hull-cit ... story.html
www.latest-news-headlines.eu/art ... ars/422198
www.yorkshirepost.co.uk/news/mai ... -1-3698354
Quote: Mild Rover "]I don't think anyone is that mithered by the lack of a return. The fear is more that it could cost the council a significant amount of money to run and maintain. The risk of that being the (IMO slightly dubious) rationale for an SMC in the first place, i assume.
How significant that risk is, basically determines how strong a hand Allam has.

As a return isn't expected on the KC, a peppercorn rental agreement, with Hull Fc and Hull City taking direct responsibility for maintenance and running costs might indeed be a sensible approach.
This would, as it does across the City, mitigate the risk borne by the community, give Hull FC greater control and relieve Allam of the responsibility he finds so burdensome. A 3-way win!
Er, hello?! icon_lol.gif icon_lol.gif
www.hulldailymail.co.uk/Hull-cit ... story.html
www.latest-news-headlines.eu/art ... ars/422198
www.yorkshirepost.co.uk/news/mai ... -1-3698354


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Quote: Mrs Barista "Er, hello?!
Okay, some people are disappointed - but I think they're missing the point. It was a prestige project, primarily to support valued civic sporting institutions. Outsourcing the risk means you'll definitely outsource the profit (though the vice versa to that isn't such a good bet).

It has been a success in helping to bring the City more sporting prestige. Revenue generation wasn't the main priority, I strongly suspect. To the extent that money was an issue, it was in terms of trying to protect the community from ongoing costs - and they've managed that.

Now the system that has either short changed or protected the community, but not caused too many headaches, is, ahem, 'under strain'.

I'd have no problem with a peppercorn rent approach (that'd be hypocritical), with Hull City and Hull FC taking direct responsibility for running and upkeep. And also having control over the food and drink concessions and stuff like that. The clubs could keep any additional profit they make, and the community is as protected as they are now, possibly more so. What would you think to that, hypothetically?
The arena is slightly different issue, of course.

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Quote: Mild Rover "Okay, some people are disappointed - but I think they're missing the point. It was a prestige project, primarily to support valued civic sporting institutions. Outsourcing the risk means you'll definitely outsource the profit (though the vice versa to that isn't such a good bet).

It has been a success in helping to bring the City more sporting prestige. Revenue generation wasn't the main priority, I strongly suspect. To the extent that money was an issue, it was in terms of trying to protect the community from ongoing costs - and they've managed that.

Now the system that has either short changed or protected the community, but not caused too many headaches, is, ahem, 'under strain'.

I'd have no problem with a peppercorn rent approach (that'd be hypocritical), with Hull City and Hull FC taking direct responsibility for running and upkeep. And also having control over the food and drink concessions and stuff like that. The clubs could keep any additional profit they make, and the community is as protected as they are now, possibly more so. What would you think to that, hypothetically?
The arena is slightly different issue, of course.'"

I fully agree the outrage of "no return" is stupid. Libraries, parks, art galleries etc aren't cash cows.

I think what you're talking about though is, in theory, what the SMC is supposed to do. But what happens IMO is the costs since the Allam's took over have escalated and the allocation of shared costs looks to be done on a different basis each year, with increasing amounts supposed to be Hull FC's. I think the latest version showed our operating costs were around £1.2m pa? It's possible they charged us half the cost of relaying the pitch though, you can't tell, and this would be cheeky if we'd not asked/wanted/needed it doing. The massive conflict of interest in ownership of SMC and primary tenant + antagonistic attitude of the Allam's to the Council and us makes it impossible to reach a fair and transparent position. As has been pointed out before, there is a commercial benefit to us in the purchase of passes but unless the council do a forensic audit of costs, income and allocations, it's unlikely we'll get this. Best outcome all round would be to break the current deal and have an independent arbiter to negotiate terms for the next 25 years with in independent operating body. Both clubs need certainty of outgoings, especially FC for whom a small change is a massive % of our business as opposed to a drop in a £70m ocean for City.

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[sizeRUSCADOR[/size

Nothing more, just that

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Burns stepping up? Didn't hear it, but seems to have challenged Ehab for once.
www.not606.com/threads/fair-play ... sy.295450/
Burns stepping up? Didn't hear it, but seems to have challenged Ehab for once.
www.not606.com/threads/fair-play ... sy.295450/


869 posts in 59 pages 
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Subscribe | Moderators: Admin, Kosh , Roland_R , Karen
869 posts in 59 pages 
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Subscribe | Moderators: Admin, Kosh , Roland_R , Karen



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