I seem to recall how Ice Hockey imploded quite quickly but wasn't it always on a knife edge, the early promise of it being a prime sport seemed to ebb away.

Do you think there could ever be a consensus of the chairmen that funds that go to RFL are put towards running a seperate entity to include luring officials and those that organise and run the admin of the sport, whilst ditching the roles that we've seen in the past that contribute little to nothing (and do so for significant sums of money)?
I don't know how that financial contribution would work but it would need all on board to agree as to how to fund a body/organisation away from the RFL.

I don't think anyone would say that the RFL is streamlined, maybe the threat of revolution not evolution is what is needed and that the clubs through this seperate entity can run the administration and officials of at least the top 3 tiers.

I certainly can't see the changes that are needed will come through the RFL in its current guise because I think the workings/set up of it as an entity is out of date and has been failing for 40 years. No matter how much you 'work' with it, it's stuck in the past and not effective or efficient at what it does as a guardian of running the game.

Not sure why the Dobbins are crowing. Sorry, did I miss their new owner taking over?
Other than two or three clubs, every club is in the same boat. Pearson said that himself.
Think the comparison to EIH is a good one. Also think that if rugby league isn’t careful, we’ll drop into that level of sport where EIH is now - a minority one.
The cumulative effect of persistent bad management (clubs and the RFL) is now catching up with the sport, post covid.

That’s not denigrating EIH either. Like rugby league , it’s a great sport that deserves wider exposure. Hull Pirates is a great way to spend an evening.

I think its fair to say all clubs are in the same boat to be honest as the game itself is possibly precariously positioned and it would only take one club to go and it would likely be like house of cards with others tumbling. It doesn't matter how much money a club has if the opposition teams in the leaguie disappear.

With regards to the Ice Hockey comparision I made the sport is a great sport and much like RL has so much to offer but sadly due to mismanagement of the sport from top to bottom by the governing bodies and clubs themselves (particularly the arena teams namely Sheffield at the start) it imploded once the supportive arm of the main sports sponsor pulled out.
The similarities for me between the two sports is actually quite frightening as I was closely involved with the Ice Hockey teams (Seahawks & Hawks days) and see the same situation looming if the RFL and SL owners don't get there act together for the good of the game rather than themselves.

For the sport to grow it must work as a cohesive group from top to bottom and evolve with the times, for me the RFL still seem in the most part to come across as flat cap and whippet and certain SL clubs seem more interested in self serving and parochial. They need to act and act quickly before it is too late.

Rovers and Hull need each other, the Derby games are by far the biggest income of the season, and then there's a massive amount of free Marketing from all the banter and workplace chatter between the two sets of fans. While it was funny to see Rovers go down in dramatic circumstances I was glad to see them back in SL.

good post bud , 2 thriving clubs in hull would benefit us greatly and possibly secure our futures under the present circumstances

From Matthew Shaw's twitter - Talks between the RFL and Super League over realignment will begin next week, Ken Davy has just confirmed.

Some interesting points on the comparison with ice hockey. I have a passing interest in the BBL, and it is tough for minority sports. The slump in interest in snooker is also cautionary. In the same way Ellery Hanley and Shaun Edwards are still probably more famous than any current British players (starter for 10, who is the most famous British RL player still playing?), Steve Davis, Jimmy White and Stephen Hendry likely remain the most famous snooker players.

I think a key first question is, what do we want? The mines and mills and manufacturing that RL was born into, and the culture associated with it, have largely gone. The memory of it, even, is passing. How much is RL ‘just’ a game and how much is it the places it came from, what they were then and what they are now? If we ended up only having professional teams in Leeds, Manchester, Cardiff, Newcastle, London, Sheffield, Birmingham, Paris, Perpignan and Toulouse, would we have saved RL? I’d argue partially, at best.

There’s a lot of change coming. Think about the way we watch television now compared with just 5 or 10 years ago. Sky aren’t lowballing SL especially - the value of sports TV rights isn’t what it was, because TV isn’t what it was. People aren’t watching stuff just because it is there, as much as in the past - there aren’t as many floating eyeballs to grab, it doesn’t matter how good your marketing is. Not a reason not to try, but we shouldn’t think it’d be easy even if the RFL or SL bosses were great at their jobs.

The market place is a congested one now for RL
When I started going to Hull, nothing was open on a Sunday. Now (in a post covid world) you’re competing against shopping centres, cinemas ,restaurants and suchlike for time, attention and money.
You’re even competing against gaming, Netflix, live premier league football etc, where people don’t even have to leave the house.

Broadcast wise, we’re really weak. The advent of broadcasters wanting women’s sport, and the monopoly of the premier league means we continue to fall behind.

I can only see the sport contracting financially going forward, especially post covid.

It was also then a winter sport
for me the biggest loss to the sport is not been able to secure a terrestrial TV deal.A live game on a Sunday KO 18.00 or 19.00 would have been a huge success.

Very good post.

On the 'household names' front I've long thought they could do a lot more with reality TV. I don't watch crap like Love Island and Celebrity Big Brother or whatever but many do, and the level of fame needed to get on these shows doesn't seem high, so no reason we couldn't get a player or ex-player on there. In turn the TV viewers are made aware that RL exists and that is a good starting point to then hit them with more advertising.

SKY seem to aim to just stop loosing subscriptions now, the growth is long gone, everyone who wanted SKY has got it or has had it. RL provides a consistent audience to them which is a good thing, but we struggle to post amazing audience numbers. Doesn't help that regularly games take place on a Friday night while the TV game is on. On Friday for example 5.5k Hull fans were at the stadium and not watching England on SKY. Some weeks it can be approx 40k sat in stadiums while a TV game is going on.

Its a real shame that RL isn't big in Liverpool, Manchester and Newcastle three massive northern cities where we have minimal presence. There's also odd quirks like RL being massive in Cumbria but not Carlisle, in Wigan but not Bolton. Without loads of money we don't have I can't see how we can change that.

There's even more of a motivation to get into paid/salaried sport than there was in the days of the mills/pits and trawler work (nd associated industries)
Some obviously see sport as an 'out', an alternate away from other avenues to earn money, avoiding working in the equivalent mills/pits/fishing vessel.
The 'culture' of what, comraderie of those whom worked together, yes there was an element of that, but rich owners of teams soon figured out they could earn more miney by buying the better players from other teams. What Wigan did in the 80s/90s was no different to what they and other clubs did at other times.

As to where we have teams, if that keeps the financial lure for (predominantly) young men to want to play, that there is a certain prestige in being good at something, then that 'elite' level can be a catalyst for teams elsewhere IF there is an honest investment from the monies made and time/effort put in from these elite clubs including through the players not just in the communities where the teams are located but elsewhere. This is why having the Cumbria connection and that which other teams have is a part of that connectivity.

In some ways playiing RL needs to be seen as aspirational, not just from a monetary POV, but that it's seen as a lifestyle that works as part of bettering communities, making people happy, healthier and making closer bonds, sometimes to those that might ordinarily be excluded from other parts of society, being inclusive is massive, it helps those that can be pushed to the periphery, and from that it makes the game/sport more popular, having that appeal that it offers holistic benefits is undervalued.

Currently it's survival, and whilst the RFL is still the adminstrative and rulers of the sport and chairmen continue to fail to come to agreeances, that status quo will continue. The latter is one of the primary reasons why spreading the sport further afield in the 40/50s/60s failed, this insular notion that popularity beyond would diminish their income and success, which in turn actually helped put a nail in the coffin regards rugby union being the more popular sport and the situation the sport finds itself in, IMO it wouldn't be as dire if the sport was more national, IMHO I think that ship sailed a long, long time ago.

Does that mean we should sit back and give up, no, but it makes the job a heck of a lot harder and much longer timescale to improve things.

You make a good point about the aspirational career. The salary cap has helped keep the league competitive (but crucially only 4 teams have ever won it and Bradford are currently out of the picture) and a downside to that has been starting salaries for young players has remained low and with a short career they need higher salaries than average. We are no where near Football where young players can be set for life after a couple of years (which also has its downsides of course)

The insanity of the money at the top end of football has many downsides, tax avoidance is one of them both at club and player level which has a knock on effect to the public purse (as do other tax dodging types).
Football is insideous, it's grown to a oint that it actually harms society because of the wealth creation for a few at the cost to most others in one way or another.

Anyway, I understand the lower salary aspect that could be seen as problematic in RL circles, however the encouragement to learn other skills should become the norm for semi/fully professional clubs, not necessarily from a scholarly POV, vocational qualifications are far too often ignored (as we see in schools all the time)

You can't force players to do this of course, but recognising that for some players they are not going to be big earners and how to help them down other avenues is important. Additionally I think there could be a voluntary salary sacrifice for clubs biggest earners and that be invested in community RL projects, if they are bonefide registered charities then that salary sacrifice is non taxable.
Players earning the bigger salaries should see it, if they are to do this, that it is part of the bigger picture of community and well being of the people that we live amongst and ultimately help pay their (players) wages. Earning respect and being a positive role model can give you far more than 'money', but that's a different discussion.

Spot on, football is insidious. Players invariably have been in teams systems from a very early age, and know nothing else than being a footballer. Many probably earn more than a lot of Super League players, before being even getting near first team football.

Football is just an unstoppable juggernaut. We’re competing for corporate money with not just football, but women’s football. It’s a battle we won’t win. There’s no real kudos from sponsoring a mainly Northern, working class, sport for many companies now.

Just on APs original piece, do you think it was also done in the hope it may smoke out some additional help / investment for the club?

I think sports in general aren't near as popular as they were 20/30 years ago

Due to more things able to do in today's world look how obsessed people are with things like ( smart phones, ipads, Netflix, facebook, YouTube etc ) none of that was even around in early 2,000s!

Even sports like boxing how many boxers can people name today apart from Joshua and fury not many

Even Harry kane on pointless only scored 38 out of 100 when his face appeared on a round that's a guy who was top scorer at last world cup!