Genuine question; when did he show the ability to direct a team? Cooke ran pretty much everything about us when Brough was here, and what he didn't Swain did.

I'm not saying Brough didn't show promise, or even that I wasn't disappointed to see him go, but I do think that it's a case of 20/20 hindsight with him. At the time it was far from obvious or clear to anyone that he would become as good as he has. He could just as easily have been a Tommy Lee/Jamie Ellis type of story.

Westerman gets more criticism for his errors and missed tackles because of the circumstances they tend to happen in. Alot of his errors come as a result of him trying something that just isn't on. I don't mind an error if the percentages were in your favour and it was the right play but you just didn't quite manage to execute it. Making an error because you've made a bad decision (again) is what annoys me anyway. It's a similar thing with his missed tackles, if he missed a tackle through being shattered then that's understandable but deciding to go for a big hit and missing then leaving a big hole is again what annoys me.

Some of the criticism is over the top but then so is some of the defence especially talk of him being a future FC great etc. If he has a fantastic season I'll happily eat humble pie but I really dont see it happening.

He conceded 16 penalties in 27 games last season, Rich Whiting conceded 13 in 26. Not a massive difference. Not forgetting Westerman plays more minutes. Presumably you think Whiting's penalties weren't as bad?

As for tackles, Westeman completed 790 and missed 49 (94%). Whiting completed 644 and missed 33 (95%).

Brough was average for Hull, great kickign game and defence, but didn't have the passing or running game like he has now, his best games for Hull were at hooker IMO.

He has really worked hard on and off the filed to improve his game to become the best halfback in the league.

Sums him up perfectly for me.
Stats are fine but stats don't paint the full picture, stuff like the area of the pitch, the tackle count when a penalty is conceded etc. Giving a penalty away on the 1st tackle in your own 20 is nowhere near as detrimental as giving a penalty away on the 4th in your opponents 20.

big season for him, i still believe he can be a very good loose forward for us

Can't say I've been impressed with Westerman during his time with us so far but hope that he can change that opinion now that he's set to play in his preferred position. As he has said: no more excuses.

In my opinion that actually strengthens his case.

He has the potential to be a very good player. He is only 24. Forwards don't reach their peak until later in their career whereas backs can become very good at a younger age. He needs to buckle down and be more profeesional on AND off the pitch. He has the unfortunate 'West Yorkshire' culture amongst young players ( Watts, Cockayne etc) and I don't think Radford is the best role model for him. If he can change his attitude he can become the player you all want him to be.

Well you have complete agreement from me.

Dead right. I know the transfer fee is not his fault, but he has NOT justified this massive outlay. At all.

It's not his job to justify it. His job is to justify his salary. And while I don't know the exact value, I'd struggle to put him bottom of the list among our players for doing that.

It's where not were by the way.

If we can get him playing similar to oloughlin and sinfield , I'd be very happy with that . Maybe radford wants joe to play the same role . I do think oloughlin and sinfield are wigan and Leeds most important players . If we can start saying the same about westerman we"ll have a very good player on our hands . The ability is there somewhere , just about proving it now .