A rather large part. I think that's the only time I've ever seen Seymour make such a daft unforced error. He's normally fairly solid in that regard. Missing touch from a penalty is very poor, but that's one individual rather than a collective 'switching off'.

2008 St Helens 57 Wigan 16
2004 Bradford 54 St Helens 8 (11 first teamers rested..... how many injuries did we have??)

There have been plenty more as well.

18th June 2005 Leeds 70 Wigan 0
26th June 2005 Saints 75 Wigan 0

Can't be a big club either then

Leeds lost 42-6 at home to Wire last year. Didn't seem to do them any harm in the long run.

I can't give anything specific but just little things were the odd person has criticised and 4/5 posters have responded mentioning a new era etc. I have done it myself so I don't exclude myself. It's not a bad thing btw, more a refreshing change.

Danny Tickle has also come out and said today that we were poor and gave the game away early, so did Gentle yesterday. Which was my point, it was never a competition and that is the first time under Gentle, as I said in my original (certainly not damning) opening post. It was never about blame as such just pointing out a bad performance even allowing for all the reasons why.

I can partially see the inital point being raised. Whilst I fully expected a bit of a hiding, there were certain aspects I didn't expect and didn't like. I personally felt that we looked resigned to a pasting too early and didn't show as much fight as we should. Wigan are clearly a very good side, but some of the tries they scored (or at least the breaks they made that put them in a position to within the next few tackles) were done so too easily, regardless of the side we had out.

I actually thought the 12 points flattered us, it was Wigan getting sloppy and one of our scores was a breakaway interception as they toyed with us. We should also not forget that they bombed a couple of other chances, too, it could have easily been 60 yesterday.

I have every confidence things will be put right, but do think we should acknowledge that some of the problems yesterday were within our control.

Not sure I would "blame" the coach but the performance yesterday was unacceptable IMO. To put things into perspective, that was the worst home defeat in our 147 years of existence. Wigan were good but I thought that the effort just wasn't there from us. We really didn't look mentally prepared for the game from the off. Added on to the similar 2nd half against hudds and things need to improve significantly against leeds or the season will disappear down the pan

Worst Hull teams have done better against better Wigan teams than yesterday.

I'm just glad Lauaki didn't score and do anything of note.

Think it was a bad result obviously but people really have to realise just how weak the team was especially with half backs who only have few games experience between them in super league.

fair enough, you are right in what you say, there were reasons that some (very few) offered more as excuses, being beaten by the better team on the day isn't a problem so long as you've done your best, and I believe, from what I have read and heard, that we did our upmost on Sunday.

I've yet to witness (or read about) a Gentle team that didn't try and didn't get motiviated at half time, we'll see how long that lasts (a long, long time I hope!)

The score was very disapointing and Gentle didn't try to make excuses. Wigan were up for it from the start, a couple of quick Ganson penalties, we couldn't deal with Finches kicks all day and we are 12 down before you know it. They were very good.

I don't think the boys gave up, Wade tried to do something different but it cost us a try and just about everything Wigan tried paid off. One to forget.

I think we should have everyone available except Westy and Heremia for Leeds, I expect a very different performance.

I'd find it hard to lay blame on Gentle for yesterday's defeat.

We had numerous players out injured but there were experienced players who didn't put in an acceptable performance.

No change there then.

On the game,I went with a feeling of trepidation,fearing a good hiding.
A quality side like Wigan was always going to be a big ask for our younger players.My hope is that they have learned something from the experience.

If we had lost by 50 points or one,it is still only 2 league points dropped.(Always look on the bright side of life. )