Isn't it about time you mentioned parking, must be at least ten minutes since you last did

I applaud FCVoices for what they have achieved (little that it is), the idea that the club do anything they don't want to is a myth though.

Wll fook me, maybe they should all be knighted then, so the club would not have done anything unless Voices pushed them? I am not having that, I don't want to argue about Voice or HISA, IMO they are both not worth having, there are some good people in both and friends of mine in both but they are still useless IMO.

The club will pick and choose what to listen to and what not to listen to.IMO they will take the easiest option to pacify simply to make people think they are listening.

Waste of time.

Agree 100%, the club do exactly as they please, the most any fans organisation will ever achieve is bringing to attention their oversight of their obligations (like the disabled access/parking), we can make as much noise as we like, we have no control (nor any right to any control) over what the club does or doesn't do.

Only one things talks, money, if HISA/FCVoices or anyone else ever managed to organise a mass boycott, over a specific and identifiable issue, then maybe the club would respond, but they would still not be responding to the protest so much as the impact of 5,000 people not paying, and even having said that, if 3,000 of those were already pass holders and had, therefore, paid upfront, then the club would care less.

Seems to me that you put forward a much too rational arguement for this Board there Rich!!

Lets face it we are only about 20 hours on from the club making an announcement to grant the fans communications facilities that most on here would not have dreamed they would get and here we are again whinging.

As for Fc Voices being in the clubs pocket well, think what you wish but perhaps those who sit on here making such statements should have taken the opportunities that have arrisen on many occassions to take up vacent places on the group then they could do something about it, but of course that would mean getting up from behind their computers and actually trying to do something to make a difference as the members of that group have done!!

As a fan who loves his club and its supporters, I was and I guess I still am 100% behind a proactive strong and level headed ISA however the more I hear on here about the aspirations some fans have for the group, and the uses they see for it, I wonder if I should be supporting it at all!!!

And what about those that have put themselves forward, but being kept out by the clique?

Points 1 + 2 are good points but the others arent much at all:

3) Its only going to be the party line

4) You can already do this, just on a different e-mail. I've done it already many times, including a few months ago.

5) Same as above

6) You are just going to get the party line again

7) This wouldnt have happened had Burns not apologised, so nothing to do with the survey.

At the end of the day nothing really changes bar points one and two, and even then from experience you dont really get too much info from fans forums except maybe a bit of info from the players and a few jokes. This isnt exactly something to be disapointed by as nothing was expected, but saying the response is excellent is very OTT

Which is what worries me abou the HISA revival.

What is the remit "HISA- asking FC to be higher up the league", hardly ground breaking is it, fans being annoyed that they should be playing better, fans being annoyed that the team isn't performing, fans thinking they could all coach the side better.

If I thought I could achieve something then I would get involved but I knwo neither HISA or Voices will achieve much, Maybe a defeatist attitude or a realistic attitude either way that's my opinion. For those who do get involved then good for them, I know you are always very supportive of things like this Wilf but some of us do have different opinions and should be free to express them without our views being classed as not rational.

As someone who joined the group not knowing any of the people, and also having never met any of the members who joined during my time there previous to them joining, I can say that its really absurd to suggest there is a clique within the group. I left the group nearly a year a go now for my own reasons (most not to do with group itself) and there are positives and negatives to the group. But lots of people don't see the positives and lots of people make up negatives which arent there

you missed the

I was talking about the perceptions bud.

The problem with FCVoices (and any other group) is that I can guarantee the club would stop talking to them as soon as they got a bit "troublesome".