You really think or believe Paea will make any difference to the front row not being destroyed as you put? He has failed to show anything at all in the first two rounds and neither in a reserve game he should have been able to stand out in.

People have criticised Mini myself included but for me whilst Mini doesn't have the impact he once had at least he looks like he's putting effort in and can play for more than 10mins.

You really think a front row on Masi, Paea, Hadley, Nzoungou is going to go any better?

We won't win this game down the middle and the only hope is trying to get the ball out wide quickly and make the size advantage on the edges count.

Paea has been poor, but it's only been 2 games, Brown is too raw and young for this game. We need to win a game, personally I'd ask Ellis to play prop, as the front row lacks a leader, May be Radford could challenge Para for this role.

It's great anyway you look at it and can only see a comfy defeat

so we're without 3 of our 4 most experienced props, and you want to go and drop the 4th because he isn't playing like Arthur Beatson.

And you want to put an outside back into the pack, that is already weakened?

This approach doesn't require balls, it requires a lack of rugby and sporting know how.

I don't disagree with you in regards the result as I think we are just far too light in the forwards and our only hope of getting anything from the game is to use the size we have on the edges against the likes of Gildart, Davies & Marshall etc and hope their pace doesn't cause us too many problems.

Nothing is going to change anytime soon due to the shocking situation in terms of limited front row options due to the poor recruitment and missing Taylor for 3 games.

We have gone from getting rid of the issue of having a team up to the cap full of average players, to a team that was balanced and had quality in the right areas back to having a team at full cap filled with too many average players.

We can dress it up as much as we like but we are no where near the same quality we were 18-24 months ago, Pritchard, Ellis, Fonau and Watts all gone and replaced with what??? Plus Manu and Mini a season too far to offer any real quality in the 2nd row anymore and Paea who doesn't even look like he could break wind let alone a tackle.

Its going to be a torrid season and not likely to improve much even if/when Bowden & Green get back as it will take time for them to get back to any real form.

So even though Paea is playing awfully he shouldnt be dropped then? We have Fash available and whilst hes not the biggest always gives his all.

As for Griffin hes doing nothing in the centres and Radford has even told him he'll probably play more in the second row this season so whats wrong with that?

Things need to change asap, we need a fresh injection of energy into the pack and if Radfords not prepared to change things then i wish hed go and let someone else with a fresh approach do so

If you are moving Griffin to 2nd row who are you playing in the three quarters?

If we assume Kelly in the halves then Connor goes to centre who is on the wing? Miloudi or Logan are the only options I can think of.
If Kelly isn't back then that's 2 slots to fill.
Griffin is still one of our better options in the three quarters.

The simple option is to play Manu in the starting front row and Hadley back to his best position in the second row.
Kelly back means we can move Connor to centre.
Ellis coming off the bench and giving us 30 mins is still our best option.
I would still play Paea but move Griffin onto the bench and play Logan or Miloudi on the wing.
No place for Litten this week as we need another forward on the bench.
irrespective of the team we put out Wigan by at least 14 points

Is Kelly definitely back or is that just speculation?

It's definitely speculation.

Think its the right time to play them,after the euphoria of the WCC,for wigan it will be after the lord mayors show.

What euphoria? They got beat.

I definitely think something needs to happen with the pack, I don't often agree with Seb, but I am definitely thinking along the same lines as him this time.

I am sure Ellis won't play, but it wouldn't be the worst idea in the world if he did imo.

Personally I would leave Miloudi on the wing for now (well actually I would go with Ratu but I don't think that is an option). Hakim might have been poor against Cas but he has had good games on the wing before. I would give him another shot. Move Connor to centre, push Griffin into the back row and Manu to prop. Gives us a bit more pace and power in the second row and size in the front row. Drop Paea and give Levy a shot, and let's have a look at Fash as well, at least we know he will give us great work rate.

Shaul
Faraimo
Connor
Tuimavave
Miloudi
Kelly
Sneyd
Masi
Houghton
Manu
Griffin
Minichiello
Westerman

Levy
Fash
Hadley
Litten

The euphoria of the game and representing england against oz. May I congratulate you on spotting wigan lost,I would think losing a big match like that anything after that would be an anti climax.

How about we don't start panicking after 2 games of the season? 2 games in which we've been ok, and with a bit more more luck and being a bit more clinical, we could have won both..

I think we should do as little tinkering with the team as possible. But let's see who we have available to play for us first.

I don't think a club like Wigan would consider simply being there to be euphoric. They have seen it all before, and I'm sure are gutted to have lost.