Think you'll find they do and have.

Then I'm really struggling to see your point.

The majority of posters on this thread seem to believe that there is no 'blame' to be apportioned for the magnitude of yesterdays defeat, rather that it was just an unfortunate set of circumstances that lead to us receiving a tonking. Aside from yesterday (and including yesterday, in most people's eyes), there has been nothing worthy of criticising, yet you seem to have noticed this mysterious reticence to question anything AP and Gentle do, though you are unable to provide any examples that have lead you to this belief.

I don't think we 'went to sleep', we just couldn't keep up the intensity of the first 40 minutes with the players we had missing and the likes of Martin playing whilst very obviously injured.

we conceded a soft try, followed by another incredibly soft try immediately after, that's the passage of play I was referrring to, but as you say, fatigue played a part in it.

A rather large part. I think that's the only time I've ever seen Seymour make such a daft unforced error. He's normally fairly solid in that regard. Missing touch from a penalty is very poor, but that's one individual rather than a collective 'switching off'.

2008 St Helens 57 Wigan 16
2004 Bradford 54 St Helens 8 (11 first teamers rested..... how many injuries did we have??)

There have been plenty more as well.

18th June 2005 Leeds 70 Wigan 0
26th June 2005 Saints 75 Wigan 0

Can't be a big club either then

Leeds lost 42-6 at home to Wire last year. Didn't seem to do them any harm in the long run.

I can't give anything specific but just little things were the odd person has criticised and 4/5 posters have responded mentioning a new era etc. I have done it myself so I don't exclude myself. It's not a bad thing btw, more a refreshing change.

Danny Tickle has also come out and said today that we were poor and gave the game away early, so did Gentle yesterday. Which was my point, it was never a competition and that is the first time under Gentle, as I said in my original (certainly not damning) opening post. It was never about blame as such just pointing out a bad performance even allowing for all the reasons why.

I can partially see the inital point being raised. Whilst I fully expected a bit of a hiding, there were certain aspects I didn't expect and didn't like. I personally felt that we looked resigned to a pasting too early and didn't show as much fight as we should. Wigan are clearly a very good side, but some of the tries they scored (or at least the breaks they made that put them in a position to within the next few tackles) were done so too easily, regardless of the side we had out.

I actually thought the 12 points flattered us, it was Wigan getting sloppy and one of our scores was a breakaway interception as they toyed with us. We should also not forget that they bombed a couple of other chances, too, it could have easily been 60 yesterday.

I have every confidence things will be put right, but do think we should acknowledge that some of the problems yesterday were within our control.

Not sure I would "blame" the coach but the performance yesterday was unacceptable IMO. To put things into perspective, that was the worst home defeat in our 147 years of existence. Wigan were good but I thought that the effort just wasn't there from us. We really didn't look mentally prepared for the game from the off. Added on to the similar 2nd half against hudds and things need to improve significantly against leeds or the season will disappear down the pan

Worst Hull teams have done better against better Wigan teams than yesterday.

I'm just glad Lauaki didn't score and do anything of note.