FORUMS > Hull FC > gareth carvell |
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| Quote: Mrs Barista "Such a timely boost to bring one of my favourite players ever back home on the eve of the new season. Cheers AP & Radders!
Pre Feka and pre Lynch?
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| Excellent piece of business, strengthens the pack and adds some real go forward.
Certainly gives me more hope of matching Cats pack on Friday.
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| Quote: *1865* "He can't have been registered as he didn't have a contract with the new company, i'm assuming (although with the RFL that could be dangerous) they wouldn't have been able to register him without a valid contract, which obviously allows us to, and is probably why the RFL had stated they'd have no problem registering him with us.'"
I know its a different scenario but with Cooke, the lack of a signed contract was appeared to be incidental to the registration and he was subsequently registered with the RFL as a rovers player. If the RFL are registering Carvell as a Hull player (and therefore a free agent) they must believe his contract with BB was null and void. Either way should Bradford's grievance be with the player or the RFL?
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| Quote: Chris28 "Pre Feka and pre Lynch?'"
But simultaneously with Thackray. Do you see a pattern emerging?
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| I would have thought Bratfud would have more pressing things to spend money on than a futile legal action.
I also think it would be foolish of them to upset the RFL given their recent predicament. No official decision has been made yet on a possible points deduction for going into administration. Again.
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| Quote: Mild mannered Janitor "I know its a different scenario but with Cooke, the lack of a signed contract was appeared to be incidental to the registration and he was subsequently registered with the RFL as a rovers player. If the RFL are registering Carvell as a Hull player (and therefore a free agent) they must believe his contract with BB was null and void. Either way should Bradford's grievance be with the player or the RFL?'" In the Cooke situation, it was probably a failure of the RFL, as it was just a continuation of a contract somebody probably registered Cookie without even checking for a signed contract.
In this instance, it's hard to find blame with anyone but the Bulls for this situation, Carvell had rejected the newco and they've decided to just ignore that on some whim of a part of his contract which is extremely amateurish and utterly unenforceable. The RFL will have wanted to see contracts because of the whole TUPE thing.
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| Quote: Jake the Peg "The club doesn't exist in law so can't enter into a contract. His contract was with OK bulls Ltd (or whatever it was called) and he has every right to refuse the TUPE transfer. bradford are FUBAR'd'"
Under TUPE you can refuse, but that on its own doesn't grant you a dismissal, constructive or otherwise. He would still be bound to his existing contractural conditions and could be held in violation of conditions. All TUPE is is a protection of employment conditions in a business transfer, not a change in employment conditions as required for constructive dismissal.
That said, my understanding is that they altered his conditions, I believe his salary. Which is clear contractural violation.
Either way. Providing Hull didn't make an approach, all is good from that point of view and the case against Carvell is very likely not worth perusing. I expect this to go away with a whimper.
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| Quote: Mrs Barista "But simultaneously with Thackray. Do you see a pattern emerging?'"
Big lads all!
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| Quote: *1865* "What that means is they rejected his rejection of the new company due to terms in his contract whereby the term 'the club' referred to Bradford Bulls no matter who owned it! It's amateurish at best, they can't honestly believe that they can get away with that crap? They'll get taken to the cleaners in court.'"
Nope, they wouldn't. Unless their actions were discriminatory, best an employee can get is lost income. You as an employee can't even claim legal costs. Something I've written to parliament about before as I believe the system of employment tribunals is very lopsided in favour of employers with disposable capital.
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| TUPE does allow resignation, but we'll have to wait and see.....
Quote: "An employee has the right to object to the transfer and this has the effect of terminating their employment.
However, that termination would in most circumstances be taken to be a resignation by the employee.
An objection is not treated as a dismissal unless the transfer would involve a substantial and detrimental change to their working conditions.
In those circumstances it may amount to constructive unfair dismissal.
There is no right to take redundancy in this situation'"
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| Quote: Bal "Under TUPE you can refuse, but that on its own doesn't grant you a dismissal, constructive or otherwise. He would still be bound to his existing contractural conditions and could be held in violation of conditions. All TUPE is is a protection of employment conditions in a business transfer, not a change in employment conditions as required for constructive dismissal.
That said, my understanding is that they altered his conditions, I believe his salary. Which is clear contractural violation.
Either way. Providing Hull didn't make an approach, all is good from that point of view and the case against Carvell is very likely not worth perusing. I expect this to go away with a whimper.'"
My understanding of TUPE is that an employee can't be compelled to transfer his employment to a new employer and has the right to walk away from an employment contract. I'm pretty sure this is the fundamental principle here and why carvell feels he can walk away. I've never seen any mention of reduced salaries. I don't think anyone has mentioned dismissal, constructive or otherwise. I'm pretty sure he's just exercising his right to walk away under TUPE
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| Quote: ccs "TUPE does allow resignation, but we'll have to wait and see.....
'"
You can "resign" at anytime. Your not obliged to work for somebody, but it doesn't free you from your contractural obligations unless you are dismissed or constructively dismiss yourself.
One of the key requirements for constructive dismissal is a change in employment conditions. A TUPE transfer is meant to actually protect these conditions.
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| Quote: Bal "You can "resign" at anytime. Your not obliged to work for somebody, but it doesn't free you from your contractural obligations unless you are dismissed or constructively dismiss yourself.
One of the key requirements for constructive dismissal is a change in employment conditions. A TUPE transfer is meant to actually protect these conditions.'"
Under TUPE he can walk away from any contract he had with the previous employer. No one is trying to claim constructive dismissal, just that his contract with bradford is null and void
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| Quote: Jake the Peg "Under TUPE he can walk away from any contract he had with the previous employer. No one is trying to claim constructive dismissal, just that his contract with bradford is null and void'"
It doesn't actually end the contract, or count as dismissal. However I believe you do get a very short consultation period under TUPE to refuse and walk away liability free. Not sure of the duration, but it's less than a week I think.
Bradford seem to be indicating from their statement that he didn't exercise this hence the surprise.
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| Quote: Jake the Peg "Under TUPE he can walk away from any contract he had with the previous employer. No one is trying to claim constructive dismissal, just that his contract with bradford is null and void'"
That's how I see it.
What is odd is this reference in Bradford's statement.
Quote: Jake the Peg "his playing contract will only allow him to resign if the club is guilty of serious and persistent breach of the terms and conditions of this agreement'"
which wouldn't apply straight after a TUPE transfer.
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