Mr Standee as you well know we were discussing the performance of the academy under Andy Last. Yeaman and Horne are therefore irrelevant, Briscoe and Turner came from Fev and Salford respectively. Can you tell me which of the others on your list apart from Houghton have cemented a spot in the first team?

scott moore anyone? can play HB and hooker but not sure if saints would let us buy him...

bit of a step down from braith anasta and co but desperate times. I can't believe Agar has come out and said we are struggling to find players. I would have thought the only reason we would let Berro go home is if we have a replacement lined up. If we haven't then it is utter madness..... something the Brother hinted at on the last page

The 'Hull' effect.

I can't think of many sports were hull borns are top of the tree.

You've been watching FC a hell of a lot longer than me then so I'll take your word for that but I'd argue its a question of 'needing' to be better rather than 'could' be better.

We've seen quota spots come down year after year and now exchange rates mean it is becoming harder and harder to get real quality over to fill those positions anyway. Most importantly the best three sides of recent years (Leeds, Saints, Wigan) all have a strong core of home-grown players, with new talents breaking through most years. If we can't emulate that I don't see how we can ever hope to challenge them. Instead, people seem happy to let 'Our Lasty' plod on without question despite the academy not producing anywhere near enough quality first teamers during his tenure. Some people have even touted him as a future Head Coach!

Houghton - Very much now our starting hooking - Over 70 appearances in past 3 seasons

Washbrook - Regular more then not for the past few of seasons - Over 50 appearances in the past 3 years.

Hall - Same as above, regardless of been largely cover for injury or not- over 50 appearances in the past 3 years.

Lee - Over 60 appearances whilst at Hull, not as many for Crusaders due to injury, but now has his goals set high at Wakey.

Burnett - Only 30+ appearances for Hull, admittedley not been good enough to break into our excellent pack.

Briscoe - Very much our starting winger and International - Over 50 appearances in past 3 years.

Hodgson - Never was a fan, but regardless he has played 20+ SL games and still only young.

Wheeldon - Pushing 40 appearances for Hull in 2 years he was here, same again for Rovers in the past 2 seasons.

This is not to mention our breaking academy players in Cunningham, Kent, Nicklas, Lyne, J. Briscoe. I think we're doing alright, anyway.

Houghton aside and ignoring the fact that Briscoe came from Fev if you think any of those other players are evidence that our academy is doing it's job then you really need to have a re-think. Yes we have produced some rugby players of a decent standard but if they aren't becoming established first team regulars (i.e we haven't had to bring someone for that position in from outside the club) then what good has it done us? The way you're arguing it I'm surprised you haven't thrown in Liam Higgins and Kirk Dixon.

You again mention in your last sentence players who have achieved nothing at first team level yet which suggests you realise that your argument is pretty weak.

You said 'first team regular', I proved evidence to show it.

And my last sentance shows the opposite of a weak arguement, it shows we are continuing to bring talent in.

Nope definitely Carl Phelps and the name wasn't mentioned regarding the Para player

Fair enough mate, you're pretty representative of the average FC fan in that you're happy to praise mediocrity. I just think it's a shame that you hold up Danny Washbrook, Tommy Lee and Josh Hodgson as examples of the academy doing it's job and seem to believe it. Each to their own though!

(serious question) Is it fair to say that we can't expect to produce...

kirk yeaman
richard horne
graeme horne
paul king
paul cooke

all too often?!

recently we've had Washy, burnett, tommy lee, hodgson and houghton but IMO it would be unrealistic to expect richard hornes and paul kings every 5 years or so. maybe i'm not ambitious enough for our academy but not sure...

Who is Carl Phelps and who does he play for?

Don't try to patronise me by calling me an 'average fan'. I'm not praising mediocrity at all, you said we haven't produce any regulars through our academy in the last 4-5 years bar one, I argued against that and obviously you having nothing to say to it because it's fact! I am actually a fan of Washbrook, and if we carry on producing players such as him, Houghton and Hall I will be pleased.

Was wondering the same thing?!

I think you are a bit to be fair! The definition of an academy success should be that he cements a place in the first team to the extent that we don't need to look outside the club to fill that position. As you rightly say you can't expect a 'golden generation' of 4 or 5 at once very often but the fact is our academy has produced one out and out success in 4 or 5 years.. nobody can convince me that that's good enough.

Washbrook is nothing but a bit-part player, not big enough for the forwards and not skillful enough for the backs. Hall has plenty of talent but if ever there was an example of it not being developed properly he's it. I take your point though, we have produced some players who have played in the first team albeit they didn't do well enough to establish themselves and therefore I don't see how we can say they show the academy is doing well.