FORUMS > Hull FC > gareth carvell |
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| Quote: Bull Mania "Bulls statement. Looks like this could get messy...
If Bradford did anything at all to change his agreed working conditions especially his wage it's grounds for constructive dismissal.
Most Bradford can get is lost of earnings which can't be demonstrated here in my opinion.
In short, reckon Bradford will make some noise about it, then employment solicitors will get involved, they try to claim loss of earnings, Carvel will decline and then it will get dropped. Happens all time, it's almost templated.
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| Quote: Bull Mania "Bulls statement. Looks like this could get messy...
Doesn't surprise me that Bulls have issued this statement, we did simlar when Cooke went to Rovers but nothing happened. The fact that the statement reads that a letter was sent to Carvell last week means it's more than likely that his or FC's lawyers have looked at it and decided there are no grounds to hold him to his contract with OK Bulls Ltd. Without the club going into receivership and ownership changing hands Bulls might have had a case but under the circumstances i think not.
Although the RFL had stated that it was a matter between the clubs I doubt they would have registerd Carvell if they thought there was a realistic cjance of legal recourse.
As Franny Cummins stated early today "time to move on"......
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| Couldnt see this coming could we? oh well let them take legal action, aslong as carvs thinks he could walkaway from them over ownership of the bulls, & we never approached a contracted player we are ok as a club, carvs may get a ban if the bulls can prove otherwise & maybe a fine, we get a top no nonsense prop, so all good for us imho.
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| Quote: easthull fc fan "Couldnt see this coming could we? oh well let them take legal action, aslong as carvs thinks he could walkaway from them over ownership of the bulls, & we never approached a contracted player we are ok as a club, carvs may get a ban if the bulls can prove otherwise & maybe a fine, we get a top no nonsense prop, so all good for us imho.'"
Ban and fine? Nope. It's an employment tribunal matter between Carvell and Bradford Bulls. Technically, although I'm sure the club will support him it's nothing to do with either Hull FC or RFL.
Incidentally, neither Hulls lawyers or HR would have being allowed to advise Carvell. He has to appoint his own, which imagine his agent has done.
I'm actually pretty sure Bradford statement about the company change not changing employment conditions is actually incorrect but that will come out in the wash. If any of his conditions changes, like working conditions or wages it's grounds for constructive dismissal and he would be free of his contract if he chooses it. The only issue is if he has taken wages while in understanding of those changes for a prolonged period which demonstrates agreement to these conditions (my understanding).
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| Quote: Club.“'" :3ea0sd45]
Please tell me they don't actually believe this to be the case?
What a set of absolute clowns, at least get a solicitor to read it before you put it out. I feel so sorry for their fans. "“The letter went on to explain the Agreement, which was entered into last year, is with “the Club” being referred to as “Bradford Bulls”. The change in ownership does not affect this Agreement given that Bradford Bulls remains as the "Club.“'"
Please tell me they don't actually believe this to be the case?
What a set of absolute clowns, at least get a solicitor to read it before you put it out. I feel so sorry for their fans.
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| Quote: Bal "The only issue is if he has taken wages while in understanding of those changes for a prolonged period which demonstrates agreement to these conditions (my understanding).'"
That worked well in Cookie's case
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| Quote: Chris28 "That worked well in Cookie's case'"
We never pursued it, so we will never know. Anyhow, the situation is similar, we would have had to demonstrate losses which we would have probably struggled to do as it has to be quite clear cut.
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| Quote: *1865* "icon_lol.gif
Hmmmm... his transfer would have being under TUPE which doesn't actually change conditions on its own, they could well be right.
However, any other condition changes, I heard from example they had reduced salaries would be enough for constructive dismissal.
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| Cookies case was kr approaching him he wanted away from kath & co, so it was cheaper & better for kr to say paul approached them, hudge stayed looking sweet in rfls eyes. nothing really fc could do as he had not signed his agreed contract extension, which was very poor in house from our clubs behalf at the time.
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| Quote: *1865* "icon_lol.gif
I tend to agree with you on this. Employees are paid by companies, not clubs. Also if the RFL have registered Carvell as a Hull player, would it be safe to assume the noises being made earlier in the week regarding Bradford holding his registration are now a none issue? Have they relinquished his registration?
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| Quote: Bal "Hmmmm... his transfer would have being under TUPE which doesn't actually change conditions on its own, they could well be right.
However, any other condition changes, I heard from example they had reduced salaries would be enough for constructive dismissal.'"
Mu understanding of TUPE is that the employee has to agree to it, Carvell didn't agree to be TUPE'd from OK Bulls to Bulls 2014 so effectively he resigned, don't think the Bulls have a case but we will see how it goes over the coming weeks.
That said don't want to be hearing anything like Carvell withdrawn from Friday's game after picking up a knock in training......
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| Quote: Bal "Hmmmm... his transfer would have being under TUPE which doesn't actually change conditions on its own, they could well be right.
However, any other condition changes, I heard from example they had reduced salaries would be enough for constructive dismissal.'" What that means is they rejected his rejection of the new company due to terms in his contract whereby the term 'the club' referred to Bradford Bulls no matter who owned it! It's amateurish at best, they can't honestly believe that they can get away with that crap? They'll get taken to the cleaners in court.
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| The club doesn't exist in law so can't enter into a contract. His contract was with OK bulls Ltd (or whatever it was called) and he has every right to refuse the TUPE transfer. bradford are FUBAR'd
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| Quote: Mild mannered Janitor "I tend to agree with you on this. Employees are paid by companies, not clubs. Also if the RFL have registered Carvell as a Hull player, would it be safe to assume the noises being made earlier in the week regarding Bradford holding his registration are now a none issue? Have they relinquished his registration?'" He can't have been registered as he didn't have a contract with the new company, i'm assuming (although with the RFL that could be dangerous) they wouldn't have been able to register him without a valid contract, which obviously allows us to, and is probably why the RFL had stated they'd have no problem registering him with us.
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| Such a timely boost to bring one of my favourite players ever back home on the eve of the new season. Cheers AP & Radders!
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