And some dobbins fans will actually believe that tripe

Brett Finch
Thomas Leuluai
Jeff Lima
Brett Hodgson
Adrian Morley
Clint Greenshields
Setaimata Sa
Lopini Paea

How many of those are likely to be replaced with better players? The point I think people are still not getting is that ALL TEAMS in SL look like losing significant players, and ALL of them are going to find it hard to replace them in the current player market. I don't honestly see any decent team at this stage looking like they have an even stronger squad for next year, Manu to Saints is about the best signing made so far but IMO Saints need front rowers more than backrowers. This idea that we are going to be left massively behind is strange with plenty of recruitment left IMO. We have 2 exceptions, but most of our departures are about rooting out the crap. A few good replacements and we could very realistically make ground.

The thing is all of those teams are starting from a much better position than us. We can't afford to get any worse

But hand in hand with them starting from a better position is that the players they are losing are arguably better than ours. We still have only 2 losses that matter. I'm not convinced that overall we will get worse, but even if we do a little, I think that most other teams will see more of a decline than us.

It's amazing, but if we sign just one very good prop suddenly our squad for next year looks a hell of a lot rosier. I'm going to wait and see who we actually get in at prop before taking a few names from text messages and internet message boards as gospel and chucking the towel in.

i have faith in the new regime at fc, BUT since we signed ellis, as ive stated before weve currently signed, PITTS who couldnt get in leeds first team, ARUNDEL who is currently injured so the jury's out on him as i havent seen enough, and thats it...
when pearson took over, i was under the impression we would be signing top players ala warrington, but after the who-ha sorrounding the ellis signing(top signing i mite add) we have been "linked" in my opinion to average replacements for the players we are set to lose...
never in a million years is elima better than manu,watts better than o'meley(yet) we needed quality to add to the quality we had, unfortunatly were losing at least one top player, maybe more with the tickle rumour gathering pace, i recon we will have to take at least a step backwards to go forwards next year,

We've won knack all over the years with players we have on the current roster who some seem to deem class or better which everyone can have their opinion on, I'm all for the change it may take 2 years but after watching the dross which has been served up over the last 4-5 and it becoming a chore to go to games I'm willing to lose a few if they will fit into a winning system.

Our reluctance to use our youth over the years during a previous regime has knocked us back as it is resulting in us paying over the odds on oversees players and average squad players who's job could of been done by our youth if given a chance.

We need a better balance of players across the board to add strength and competition for places to some of those who seem to think its a given they should be in the team.

There is no way we can utilise the wire cash cow method and i never expected us to as every man a dog knows its bent and there's no way the RFL will have the balls to look into it.

I want us to be up there competing fairly and squarely which i think Gentle et al can bring but we are going to have to wait a few years to see it flourish in my opinion.

if thst the case, whos been holding us back in the current squad??
i'll go first, HORNE, miles past his best, passenger at times, but will be a starter when fit, wether at 1 or 6 next year....should have gone a year or so ago for me

I know we've had a rough couple of years, but why is everyone so pessimistic all the time?! We've only got ONE player officially leaving, the rest are all just rumoured and that ONE player (as good as he is) is being replaced by someone regarded as one of the best forwards in the world!

I trust in what Gentle says because he has so far done most things that we all wanted (for example; bringing players in from the 20's - Crooks, Bowden, Nicklas, Green, Kent). I can see us making atleast one more big signing (I know this sounds really optimistic and kinda stupid to some people, but I see Benji Marshall coming) and the fact we've signed another player who is highly rated and in the England Knights squad, I feel really optimistic about the coming years!

Old regime have held us back years to start with

Squad wise

o'Meley - one year to long in my opinion

Westerman - should never of paid £150k for him, could of bought a scrum half for that price. Needs to justify his fee

Horne - Game/play slows down when he gets the ball in hand, need to change to go forward

Mckinnon - F00ked off early with a nice pay check to boot and leaving us in the , pretty much sums up Hulls old regime and there thought process, Homesick a cover story.

God knows what our oversees players are on but wouldn't surprise me if there on more then what Ellis will be on when he gets here.

Watts would/could be a good signing in my opinion if we get him, Crookes i reserve judgement in a way but the fact that we continue to sign wingers under 6ft tall doesn't bode well for a kicking game to the corners in attack or defence.

I'm sorry but can you at least try to cheer up? At least I look on the positive side of things and have faith in what the team I support will deliver in the future. I said it'll sound stupid to some people but if he where to come, he'd be coming to a team with a number of faces he is familiar with, and with a coach and chairman who look to be doing most things right at the moment, who are looking to build a title winning squad.

<- You

Horne has never been the same since his injury/diabetes, and it was a ridiculous decision to give him a new 2 year deal. His performance against Saints was the worst I've ever seen him play and it was sad to see.

Of the other regular starters who aren't good enough:

Sharp: Has improved, but is still poor/average. He is not particularly strong or quick and his positioning is awful. The only positive is his good effort and work-rate.

Turner: Great with ball in hand, but awful in defence. If he was 18/19 I could live with that and hope that he improves, but he's 23 and I feel this is as good as he is going to get.

Westerman: Big transfer fee and a lot of hype, but does absolutely nothing in my eyes. Penalty machine and looks un-fit.

We also obviously lack a proper full-back, so that is (IMO of course) 5 out of a starting 13 positions that we aren't good enough in.

I'd also add that due to injuries and lack of squad cover, we are playing Manu, Lynch and Houghton for too long each week and this is limiting their impact.

I dont buy into this he's not good enough for us because he cant get in there team ie watts , pitts . There is cases all over the s.l were players have left one club and become better players ie carvel could get in the leeds 13 , left and went on to be an international , danny tickle , craig hall , josh hodgeson are to name but a few . I bet you all could think of a lot more cases

The great point that various people have made is that we don't need every name to be directly replaced a player who will immediately be better then their predecessor at the club. Gentle has said on numerous occasions that we need to build the squad and the youth of the sport is the future. The likes of Pitts (who I think has had a very promising start at the club), Arundel, Crookes, Watts, along with extensions to Kent and Bowden is a great step in the right direction for us.

In Gentle We Trust.

This year is the start of our re building the mighty. Wigan did it after almost getting relegated in 06. We have the board and back room to hopefully do it. They seem to have a clear vision I.e. youth and the style of rugby required so in AP we trust...fingers crossed.lol.