I thought this thread and the points being made were about our medium term approach, declining crowds/revenue and the cost-cutting, not on-field success. In that respect (providing they stay up, which they should), they are arguably on a relatively upward trajectory compared to the last few years, we seem to be on a downward spiral.

Not for one minute saying that I'd rather be in their position in the league table, but they have improved crowds despite having worse results and a cup run to pay for, so it does show that people will turn up to be entertained. We on the other hand, seem to be giving up on improving gates and resigning ourselves to existing on a low budget. I think we've got that wrong, personally, and if we give up on getting the fans back as quickly as possible, it only gets progressively harder to convince them to return.

How great it is to see a thread like this full of people who really care, worried about their Club and trying to make sense of it all. While that is the case, I think that there is always a modicum of hope left. We are just ordinary fans trying to understand it all really.

The analogy with Castleford is interesting, they play in a tin pot ground (which I love) have little money, are an unfashionable Club who have never claimed to be 'Big' and yet their fans are compared with ours so positive and up for it, simply because somehow somewhere their Board and their Coach consistently give them grounds for hope for the present and the future. Anyone who has witnessed the Sweet Caroline moment will know exactly what I mean. When I saw it unfold around the ground and the faces of everyone who stayed to the end to be part of it I really envied those Cas fans.

The fact remains that a team that is trying and that plays some attractive rugby with a consistent level of spirit will inspire people, the gates will start to come back and thus the money role in. All we all need is a bit of HOPE. But we are totally devoid of any at present. We persist with our lot but the coaches can do nothing about getting their heads right, while on the terraces all the younger, less committed and perhaps less dyed in the wool fans drift away disillusioned and skint, so that now we are just left with us lot the compulsives, the fanatics and the old stagers who are so steeped in history and the culture, we turn up whatever we are given to watch.

Then as if to find something to p*ss them off too, we decide to do the one thing that their dedication and lifelong love for the club will not countenance and merge our youngsters, (one of the only flickering lights left in an ever darkening picture), with Rovers, which for many now is the final straw. You really couldn’t make it up could you? We have got miles away from any sort of hope out on the field to retain the casual supporter and have now started to jettison the rest by getting into bed with a Club they and their families have seen for generations as the mortal enemy. I have listened to the arguments and there are certainly some points to commend the move, I can see that, but it has been handled badly, not explained properly and foisted on us all almost overnight so that now people will simply not countenance the idea and more irreparable damage has been done.

Somehow, I think myself that as a Club we need to adopt a Wheldon Road type siege mentality, develop some honesty and make some tough decisions towards giving the supporters some hope again. Not persist with (as I'll be honest I did) celebrating mediocrity (a place in the top eight which we were very fortuitous to get), relying on a few big names to get the interest back while all the time appearing to be selling off the family silver to our evil uncle across the river. When it comes to the point when dozens if not hundreds of people like me, who have had a season ticket for donkeys years are considering 'that enough' its a blooming worry but really heartening to see how many others care too.

So on field success isn't an important part of this? Entertaining rugby is all fine and dandy, but people will come to watch winning rugby. We weren't particularly entertaining in 2010/11/12 but still had impressive attendances.



Again, i'm not sure i'd be happy with watching the likes of Halifax and Sheffield in the name of entertainment.

Many of our financial difficulties can be laid at Pearson's door. He paid too much for the club and didn't do his due diligence properly e.g. the EBT liability.

He appointed McRae and followed his advice resulting in average players being signed on lucrative contracts. When he saw through McRae he then decided to pay off those players before their contracts were up.

Pearson's personality is mercurial, even capricious. He speaks without thinking and makes decisions in haste.

He then sacked Gentle a year too early and gave his inexperienced and unproven assistant a 3 year contract. Radford is a genuine, honest, hardworking guy but he's just not up to it. I honestly believe the reason Radford hasn't been sacked is because Pearson can't afford to pay him off.

He bought the club believing he would make money out of it but has had to pump in more and more and I think he has now run out of money. I think he planned to sell it for a profit in about 5 years but now he couldn't give it away.

Other problems are not down to him. He bought the club as we were entering the biggest recession for generations and falling attendances can partly be attributed to the effects of this recession on an economically deprived, low wage area.

He also made a mistake by promising too much too soon. He should have under-promised and over-delivered. Instead of saying we would be a force in the game within 3 years or so he should have told us what a state the club was in due to years of under-investment and that it would be a long job to turn it around.

So in summary I believe our problems are down to the actions of the previous regime, Pearson's poor judgment and reliance on those he appointed to advise him and the state of the economy.

I will accept any criticism of the fans who have put their hands in their pockets year on year and have very right to criticise. If we have unrealistic expectations that is entirely the fault of the owner and the club's PR machine.

So where do we go from here? I think whatever happens in the next two months pass sales will be down. If we do really badly in the Super 8's then they will be very seriously down. Signing players won't change that. The only thing which might would be to appoint an experienced, proven, top class coach but I don't think that will happen. Next season will be another battle to scrape into the top 8.

IF we fail miserably in the next 7 games..

Would Pearson act??? if we performed terribly, and he didnt make a change. I feel it would have a further detrimental effect on pass sales for next season..

I think we will win 2 at most, maybe 3.

If we win 0 or 1 there will be a big black cloud hanging over the club and appeals like last year to buy passes will fall on deaf ears. Action will need to be taken, but will it?

Its a very interesting notion about entertainment factor. Sport is about winning, if it looks good at the same time that a bonus.

Its also interesting to see some of those using the "entertainment" reasoning where also advocating the return of Brian Smith. Just to remind thos who clearly have forgotten, but Smiths tenure (1988-1991) was dower stuff. It was wins ground out with strong defence and doing the basics right. It was far from champagne / flair rugby.

Crowd grew because we are a winning team.

I echo your sentiments.. chicken & egg scenario..

Turning up is endorsing Pearson's decision making, but in turn harms the club financially..

Pearson made his 'We need you' plea last pre-season, it worked .. on his last RH interview, he reiterated a similar plea, but judging by some fan's comments, I doubt it will work for him this pre-season..

I just wish Pearson would engage and listen with the fans more, he was genuinely shocked, when some fans were complaining about the quality/style of performances on show.

Yes, people will watch winning rugby as well as entertaining rugby. Problem is, we're providing neither at the moment.

And the interesting thing is, look at the figures for those years you mention. They actually show a general pattern of declining gates despite improving results. We went from 12th in 2009 to 6th in 2010. Know what that did to our average home gate? It increased by 19. 19. And on the back of that much improved season, how did we take that forward into 2011? Gates went down by 1,587. Still, we managed the top 8 again and got a new owner and coach, so the next season we managed to... decrease gates by a further 771.

So whilst you point out that attendances were better then without particularly entertaining rugby because we were winning, that misses the point that actually increasing amounts of people were deciding not to watch a side even though they were starting to win more often. What does that say?



Where this argument falls down is how it seems to suggest that it's one or the other, entertaining rugby meaning losses and winning rugby needing to be dull. That's not the case (or doesn't have to be).

Absolutely no reason why we can't finish above both Cas & Catalan this year. 6th and QF of the Challenge Cup (being knocked out by the best team in the comp) isn't a poor season by anyone's standard.
In the last 3 months (Wakey away aside) we've only lost games to Wigan, Saints, Leeds & Catalan away. Again, hardly the end of the world.

Finishing 6th is a possibility, we've beaten 5 of the other 7 at least once this year! I just don't see the need for the negativity.

Personal preference I suppose, i'd rather see winning rugby than entertaining rugby.
The point I was making was that some people seem to think the entertainment value served on the pitch is the key to our long term success, it isn't. There's also people that think that simply changing coach would transform us! Well I think they'd be very disappointed.
If we write off last year as a clear out/transition year, we've seen a lot of improvement from that team, wouldn't you agree? This season hasn't finished yet and as I said we could still finish 6th. I'm relatively confident (not ecstatic though) about the progress being made.

I have not looked at this in detail, but if we had 2 home games against rovers that significantly impacts on our average attendance.

Mainly that there's factors outside of Rugby League that have contributed.

Whilst that's true, it has limitations. If you rely on winning to be your way of getting fans in, you're likely only going to keep a lot of those fans for as long as you're winning. Winning cannot be maintained indefinitely, so you need something for fans to hang onto and believe in in the lean periods. That's what we've lost IMO.